Vanderhoven7 Can we get this pdf without signing up for anything?
Seems something got corrupted. No sign up should be needed.
Try this link instead.
Posts by Splash
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13New flip flop document - updated from last year
by Splash inabout this time last year i uploaded a document as part of my going away post.. as stated at the time i had to lie low, and am still doing so.
sort of.
mostly.i pop up rarely to chip in when my 'ardour comes up into my nose' about something lol, but still read the leaks and back-and-forth between the members here.
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Splash
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Why JW's have a paedophile problem
by Splash ini just ran across this quote which resonated with me.. by way of introduction, hmp whatton is europe's largest prison for contact and non contact sex offenders against adults and children.
it's based in nottinghamshire in the uk.. david potter is one of hmp whatton's most experienced facilitators of treatment programmes.. in an interview with the bbc he said "in groups, a lot of the work we do is aimed at building the self-esteem of people that have committed a sexual offence, because a lot of sexual offending is as a direct result of low self-esteem.
in groups we try and build their sense of self worth.".
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Splash
I just ran across this quote which resonated with me.
By way of introduction, HMP Whatton is Europe's largest prison for contact and non contact sex offenders against adults and children. It's based in Nottinghamshire in the UK.
David Potter is one of HMP Whatton's most experienced facilitators of treatment programmes.
In an interview with the BBC he said "In groups, a lot of the work we do is aimed at building the self-esteem of people that have committed a sexual offence, because a lot of sexual offending is as a direct result of low self-esteem. In groups we try and build their sense of self worth."
There can hardly be another organisation which instills such a constant and complete sense of shame, guilt, fear, low self esteem, lack of ambition, lack of achievement, lack of self worth as does the WT organisation.
The weekly brow beatings, demands for more, more, more, unachievable personal study regimes, need to be at all meetings and answering, public counsel on your talks, suspicion and taunting when missing field service, and the GB's foot on everyone's neck has turned the congregations into a Petri dish of mental health and abuse issues.
This is an epidemic of their own making, and after cultivating it for so long they are now being exposed, showing the consequences of their evil ravings.
The BBC interview was a couple of years ago and can be read here.
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13
New flip flop document - updated from last year
by Splash inabout this time last year i uploaded a document as part of my going away post.. as stated at the time i had to lie low, and am still doing so.
sort of.
mostly.i pop up rarely to chip in when my 'ardour comes up into my nose' about something lol, but still read the leaks and back-and-forth between the members here.
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Splash
About this time last year I uploaded a document as part of my going away post.
As stated at the time I had to lie low, and am still doing so. Sort of. Mostly.
I pop up rarely to chip in when my 'ardour comes up into my nose' about something lol, but still read the leaks and back-and-forth between the members here. Keep up the good work.Anyway, although I've not had as much enthusiasm for researching the WT as I used to - I reached a point where I was convinced in my own mind so didn't need to pursue it more - I have added about 3 pages per month during the last year to the document and hope it proves useful to someone or other. I'll not be adding to it any further now, but it just seems too much of a shame to keep it to myself if it might help someone else see the futility of believing WT teachings.
This forum is the author of the info, I'm just the collator. Well done you lot!
If you've seen it all before or are fed up with these sort of things then no worries, skip on to the next thread, I won't mind at all.All the best, Splash.
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Feb. 2017 "Who is Leading God's People Today?"
by Saethydd ini know that i am not by any means the first person to take note of this article, but today i finally got around to reading it.
i quickly found the now infamous line "the governing body is neither inspired nor infallible.
" in the interest of fairness, however, i decided to finish the paragraph, which led me to finish the lesson.
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Splash
If those of the Governing Body allow God’s Word rather than popular opinion to guide their decisions, who is really leading God’s people today?
So when WT change their child protection policies because of secular pressure, who is really leading God's people today?
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The 31 date blunders of Watchtower
by FatFreek 2005 indates (ad) of events once taught by watchtower as significant but no longer supported since nothing happened.. .
"but bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble.
zion's watch tower 1894 jul 15 p.226 incredibly, today’s jw’s dishonestly prefer to rewrite history, claiming "jehovah's witnesses pointed to the year 1914, decades in advance, as marking the start of "the conclusion of the system of things.
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Splash
Here's my list, some of which are the same.
DATES WHICH HAD TO BE REVISED BECAUSE THEY FAILED
606 BC - Studying God's Word, we have measured the 2520 years, the seven symbolic times, from that year 606 B.C. and have found that it reached down to October, 1914, as nearly as we were able to reckon. We did not say positively that this would be the year. (Watchtower, November 1, 1914, p. 325)
1798 - Napoleon began this Egyptian campaign in 1798, finished it, and then returned to France on Oct 1, 1799. The campaign is briefly, yet graphically described in the prophecy, verses 40-44; and its being completed in 1799 marks, according to the prophet's own words, the beginning of "the time of the end. (Creation; 1927; p. 293)
1799 - The indisputable facts, therefore, show that the "time of the end" began in 1799; that the Lord's second presence began in 1874. (The Watchtower, March 1, 1922)
1872 - In this chapter we present the Bible evidence which indicates that six thousand years from the creation of Adam were complete with A.D. 1872; and hence that, since A.D. 1872 are chronologically entered upon the seventh thousand or the Millennium. (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 33, 1889)
1873 - If, then, the seventh thousand-year period of earth's history be an epoch specially noted as the period of Christ's reign, we shall by showing that it began in 1873, be proving that we are already in it. (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 40. 1889)
1874 - We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology [for] the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925. It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. (w1922, 5/15 p.150)
1878 - Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874, A.D... and the formal inauguration of his kingly office dates from April 1878, A.D. (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol.4, p.621, 1897)
1881 - To our understanding the general call to this joint heirship with our Redeemer as members of the New Creation of God, ceased in 1881. (The New Creation; 1899; 1915 ed.; p. 95)
1910 - According to our expectations the stress of the great time of trouble will be on us soon, somewhere between 1910 and 1912, culminating with the end of the 'Times of the Gentiles,' October, 1914. (The New Creation, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 6, p. 579, 1904)
1914 - In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)
1914 - Complete destruction of the 'powers that be' of 'this present evil worlds - political, financial, ecclesiastical - about the close of the Time of the Gentiles; October A.D. 1914. (Studies in the Scriptures, IV, p. 622, 1897)
1914 - When Uranus and Jupiter meet in the humane sign of Aquarius in 1914, the long-promised era will have made a fair start in the work of setting man free to work out his own salvation. (w1903 5/1 p.130)
1915 - In the coming 26 years, all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved. (C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 98-99, 1889) [1889 + 26 years = 1915]
1915 - While it's possible that Armageddon may begin next Spring, yet this purely speculation to attempt to say just when. We see, however, that there are parallels between the close of the Jewish age and this Gospel age. These parallels seem to point to the year just before us part particularly the early months. (Watchtower Reprints, VI, Sept 1, 1914, p. 5527)
1915 - In view of strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the kingdom of God, will be accomplished near the end of A.D. 1915. (The Time Is At Hand, 1915 edition, p. 99)
1918 - Also, in the year 1918, when God destroys the churches wholesale and the church members by million, it shall be that any that escape shall come to the works of Pastor Russell to learn the meaning of the downfall of Christianity. (The Finished Mystery, 1917 edition, p. 485)
1920 - Even the republics will disappear in the fall of 1920. And the mountains were not found. Every kingdom of earth will pass away, be swallowed up in anarchy. (The Finished Mystery, 1917 edition, p. 258)
1924 - Even if the time of our change should not come within ten years, what more should we ask? Are we not a blessed, happy people? Is not our God faithful? If anyone knows anything better, let him take it. If any of you ever find anything better, we hope you will tell us. (Watchtower, Dec 15, 1914, p. 376.)
1925 - 'There will be no slip-up... Abraham should enter upon the actual possession of his promised inheritance in the year 1925. (Watchtower Oct. 15, 1917, p. 6157)
1925 - There is evidence that the establishment of the Kingdom in Palestine will probably be in 1925, ten years later than we once calculated. (Studies In The Scriptures, Vol 7, The Finished Mystery, p. 128)
1925 - Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old. (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, 1920, p. 89-90)
1925 - The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything. (Watchtower 1925, p. 56)
1932 - They had preached that in an early time God would overthrow "Christendom". Many had emphasized the year 1925 as the date, and then when that date did not materialize the date was moved up to 1932. Again, 1932 came and ''Christendom'' was not destroyed, and now it was discovered that "Christendom" would be spared for a while longer for the sake of the Jonadab class. (w1938 2/15 p. 54)
1934 - True, it is expecting great things to claim, as we do, that within the coming twenty-six years all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved. (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1908 ed.; p. 99)
1940 - The year 1940 is certain to be the most important year yet because Armageddon is very near. It behooves all who love righteousness to put forth every effort to advertise The Theocracy while the privileges are still open. (Informant, April, 1940, p. 1)
1975 - Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. 'The new book compels us to realise that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed,' said a conventioneer. (Watchtower 15/10/1966, p 629)
1975 - Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then ? Possibly... It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years. (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p499)
1975 - There are only about ninety months left before 6,000 years of mans existence on earth is completed... The majority of people living today will probably be alive when Armageddon breaks out, and there are no resurrection hopes for those who are destroyed then. So, now more than ever, it is vital not to ignore that spirit of wanting to do more. (KM, March 1968, p. 4 [1968 + 90 months = 1975])
1975 - "Yes, the end of this system is so very near! Is that not reason to increase our activity?... Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end." (Kingdom Ministry, May 1974, p. 3)
2000 - If the wicked system of this world survived until the turn of the century [the year 2000], which is highly improbable in view of world trends and the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, there would still be survivors of the World War I generation. However, the fact that their number is dwindling is one more indication that "the conclusion of the system of things" is moving fast toward its end. (w80 10/15 p. 31)
20th Century - Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom. (The Nations Shall Know (1971); 2nd ed.; p. 216)
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December 28, 2016 BOE Re: One Study Edition of The Watchtower in Languages Other Than English
by wifibandit indecember 28, 2016 to all congregations re: one study edition of the watchtower in languages other than english.
dear brothers:.
for several years, the simplified edition of the watchtower has been produced in french,.
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Splash
So they found another way of cutting back on the printing then.
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201
I am glad to have found the true religion
by A Believer init really is great.
i remember browsing this forum the day after i had joined it, and their was a knock on the door.
i thought it was one of my package from ups but instead it was two sisters.
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Splash
If you have the 'true religion' today, what was it 10 years ago when the teachings were different?
What will it be in 10 years time when the teachings have largely changed again?Along with all other JW's you can ignore the factual evidence which disproves the Watchtower's claim of being led by God and you can pretend to yourself that all is well - closing your eyes and ears every time you encounter a rule that's not scriptural, a teaching that makes no sense, a flip-flop back to an old teaching, a scandal which makes you no different to any other group.
If you wish to have your every decision made for you, made to believe everything you are told, untold and retold, give your time, energy and money to people who would cast you aside for merely questioning them, then you are perfectly free to do so. History tells us that there are always willing and fervent adherents to every kind of religion and you have found one that suits you and your non-enquiring mind.
Well done, I sincerely hope that you have a happy life.
As for me, I prefer to follow the advice of the scriptures instead of handing my thinking abilities over to complete strangers who have proven records of being deceitful:"Do not put YOUR trust in nobles" - Psalm 146:3
"The naive person believes every word, But the shrewd one ponders each step." Proverbs 14:15
"when he entered the house Jesus got ahead of him by saying: "What do you think, Simon?" -Mt 17:25
Jesus asking them "What do YOU think?" - Matthew 18:12; 21:28
"You must love Jehovah your God with ... your whole mind." - Matthew 22:37
"Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·ni'ca, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures" (Ac 17:11)
"keep testing whether you are in the faith " 2Co 13:5
"present your bodies...a sacred service with your power of reason" Ro 12:1
"think so as to have a sound mind" - Romans 12:3
"go on perceiving what the will of Jehovah is" Eph 5:17
"make sure of the more important things" Php 1:10
"make sure of all things" 1Thes 5:21
"we request of YOU not to be quickly shaken from YOUR reason nor to be excited either through an inspired expression or through a verbal message or through a letter as though from us" 2Th 2:1, 2
"Ponder over these things; be absorbed in them" 1 Timothy 4:15
"God gave us not a spirit of cowardice, but that of power and of love and of soundness of mind." 2Tim 1:7
"I am arousing YOUR clear thinking faculties by way of a reminder" 2Pe 3:1
"test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God" 1Jo 4:1
"he has given us intellectual capacity that we may gain the knowledge of the true one" 1Jo 5:20 -
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Beards - September 2016 Watchtower
by Listener inthe issue of whether beards are acceptable or not is addressed in the september 2016 watchtower - well sort of.
it is as clear as mud as to whether they are allowed in places like australia, usa and britain.. 17. what are some factors that may affect whether a brother wears a beard?17 what about the propriety of brothers wearing a beard?
the mosaic law required men to wear a beard.
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Splash
Alex Moran A Balanced elder body will view it something like this:
There are very few balanced elder bodies. BOE's are typically run by one authoritarian elder or a family clique of elders who badger and bully the rest into compliance with their own personal views and rules.
It was written to encourage local congregations to consider the matter again
They had no right to write about it in the first place. The fact they are still writing about it shows they have lost all moral sense on this topic and are still looking to lord it over the congregation.
Of course he could still choose to wear one, it is up to the individual.
Slyly worded. You can go and murder someone, it's up to the individual. The critical thing is not what the individual does but how the elders react. In this case they would react badly, impose sanctions, create a division, 'interview' the brother to find his motives, tell him he's stumbling others, create an unpleasant suspicion over him. And why? What's the crime, the serious cause of disunity? Oh yes, he grew a neat beard.
One final consideration - the conscience of others in the congregation.
The congregation does not have a conscience, they have a reaction. This reaction is not their own, it is how they are told and taught to react. "For those loving Jehovah there is no stumbling block" let alone something as mundane as an unoffensive beard. Elders conveniently misunderstand being surprised for being stumbled. They are not the same. Until a small beard stops someone attending the meetings, no-one has been stumbled. Want to change the 'conscience' of the congregation? One local needs and the whole game changes. That's how well trained the 'consciences' are, and this is how the GB get instant acceptance for all of their doctrinal changes.
all it will take is a few brothers who are willing to wear a beard, go out in service, comment, give student parts to persist for a while, then you would likely see a change in attitude.
Which is proof conclusive that the beard rule is an arbitrary, divisive, tradition of men which has no basis in scripture and should not be a rule in the congregation.
some Body of Elders will try to bully young men into submission
Not just some, but many.
They will write to HQ, ask the CO, have elder meetings on this. They are frightened to make the right decision because it involves a change to a long held custom, so instead they maintain the wrongness of it with a sanction from a higher up position. They wash their hands like Pilate but they are still culpable pharisees.They knowingly violate the rule "Do not go beyond the things written". (1 Cor 4:6-7)
They lord it over the congregation. (Mark 10:43-44)
They overstep the commandment of God because of their tradition. (Matt 15:3)
They ignore the spirit and add a burden beyond the necessary things. (Acts 15:28)
Their hearts are far removed from Christ and their worship is in vain because they teach commands of men as doctrines. (Matt 15:7-9)
They try to direct their own step instead of stick to the scriptures. (Jer 10:23-24)
They only see what man sees and not what God sees. (1 Sam 16:7)
They incense God because it is their own proud rules who stumble others, not the beard wearer. (2 Cor 11:29)And to any rational person, it is simply insane.
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Special Talk During the Meeting Today About the Bad Press in Canada
by RobertT18 ini was invited to a congregation in ontario, canada today and as soon as the meeting opened the brother conducting the meeting said there was a very important statement coming from the borg.
this talk replaced the two last parts of "living as a christian" section.
he started reading a letter from the borg about how much they loved us.
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Splash
Listener: They can't appropriately call it persecution because it's not.
It's not persecution when they've done something wrong, it's accountability.
That's like saying all criminals are being persecuted by the police. Nonsense.Yet toss the word "persecution" into a JW conversation and everyone feels aggrieved that they are being exposed for being dangerous. Apply the same scrutiny to any other organisation and this proves that organisation is part of Satan's world.
It boils down to JW's being unable to comprehend that they are ever wrong.All this because they have among the worst procedures for dealing with child sex abuse compared to the rest of Satan's system.
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This week's bs, bible study help
by Normalfulla inhi all , because i'm useless and can't be bothered studying, i need some rebuttals for the excuses given in this week's bs , (i love how the acronym matches its origin) my uber dub father pleaded with me to study this week's book study as it addresses my issues with them being directed by holy spirit etc and how jah reveals things progressively , problem is i know there's a great argument to put fwd with proper preparation but i'm onto my 2nd drink of the evening and can't be assed , please unload some smoking guns i can take with me tomorrow .
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chur.
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Splash
The Bible Study in para 18 quotes from w1925 March 1st.
If we are to believe that quotation then we also need to read the rest of that article that the quotation was taken from and believe those things also:
- Jesus interprets his word to his people. (in which case why does it change so often?)
- The gentile times began in 606 B.C. (no longer taught)
- The Devil became god of the world when Israel was cast off (no longer taught)
- In 1914 the Devil no longer rules the world 'without interference' (no longer taught)
- The Lord came to his temple in 1914 (w07 12/15 now says that happened in 33C.E.)
- It speaks of a 'temple class', 'anointed class', and the 'saints'. (not taught today)
- The seven heads of the wild beast represents seven departments of Satans' organisation (not taught today)
- The tail which drew one third of the stars actually drew one third of earths leaders. (not taught today)
- Since 1878 the Devil has been watching Zion (not taught today)
- The birth of the child is the birth of the little flock (no longer strictly accurate)
- From 1878 Jesus was collecting his followers (huh?)
- Christ has been present since 1874 (wha?)
- Dan 12:1 'Michael will stand up' refers to 1914 (now is future)
- The events of Rev 12 are written in the wrong order (!)
- The woman fleeing to the wilderness occurred on 27th March 1919, the start of the 1260 days
- The disgorged flood was modernism and the League of Nations
- Mention of Russells 'Advertise' campaign in 1922. (All those advertised to are now dead)
- They are deep into the time of the end (same as today, 92 years later)Paragraph 18 of the BS book says "Just as Jehovah progressively revealed truths about the kingdom leading up to 1914, he continues to do so in the time of the end".
This is false. The 'revealing of truths' already mentioned in the book relate to Jesus giving a little information to his apostles, then over time this increases in detail. It never revokes a previously held belief or flip flops between multiple meanings, which is what the WT have been doing for the last 130 years. This is evidence of the opposite of what they claim - they are not like the early apostles at all, but rather like every other Christian religion who change their teachings when they are no longer tenable due to the passage of time or some other reason (like the 'generation' teaching).Para 19 says they are humble to make adjustments. It is not humble to know you are uninspired and have taught 100's of false teachings over a century or more, but still insist, on consequence of death, that you follow a blood, innoculation and donor policy that later changed after costing many lives.
Para 20 says we must accept all the constant changes, like the 1st century Christians did.
Again, false comparison. The 1st century Christians had witnessed miracles. They were being taught a consistent thing - the law was removed and the apostles had a new theology. There was no constant backward/forward/up/down flip flops in the 1st century, again showing the modern GB are not anything like the apostles. The paragraph mentions the letters from Paul were inspired. Are they trying to draw a mental conclusion that their changes are also inspired? Deceptive.
The apostles encouraged testing of things written so as to know when to accept and reject them. The GB will DF you if you test their false teachings and reject them.Par 21 calls these changes 'refinements'. They are not refinements they are changes. Previous teachings are tossed out completely and replaced with something new.
Was this good use of the masters 'talent' by his servant, or was it a wicked and wasteful thing to do?Par 21 says we now see more clearly. How can we be sure when we were previously told the old teachings were clearer? We have no basis to trust that they are correct today, any more than they were correct in the past.
How is it that some things that the churches teach were known to them before the WT taught the same thing?
How can it be clearer to teach the superior authorities are political, then swap that to being God and Christ, then back to being political again? Evidence of gods spirit or satans? Clearer or more confusing? Clarification or false teaching?They use the word "humility" when they actually mean "blind obedience".
Ask your father if the billions of preaching hours and all the decades of teaching false/wrong things was good, and if all the 1,000's of printed and distributed publications that are now 'apostate' were worth printing.
Ask him what would happen if he thought one of the GB's teachings were wrong and publicly discussed it. Would the GB be humble and listen to this clarification? No, he'd be warned then df'd.
Show him -- g70 4/22 p. 8 Changes That Disturb People
"Yes, millions of persons have been shocked to learn that things they were taught as being vital for salvation are now considered by their church to be wrong. Have you, too, felt discouragement or even despair because of what is happening in your church? A businessman in Colombia expressed the effect the changes have had on many."Tell me," he asked, "how can I have confidence in anything? How can I believe in the Bible, in God, or have faith? Just ten years ago we Catholics had the absolute truth, we put all our faith in this. Now the pope and our priests are telling us this is not the way to believe any more, but we are to believe 'new things.' How do I know the 'new things' will be the truth in five years?"Since your father was baptised he has seen changes on when the end is coming, on blood, on 1914 and on the 'generation', seen reduced hours for pioneers, a different Faithful Slave definition, new donation arrangements, different assemblies, new headquarters, a different and prominent Governing Body, new videos, cartoons and online TV shows, a different ministry, new branding, every meeting changed, no TMS, shorter Sunday talks, no DO's, everything tablet based, different elder arrangement and appointments, no Kingdom Ministries, thinner and fewer magazines, different Kingdom Hall designs, new songs, new music and a different Bible.
Is he happy that the religion he accepted and was baptised into has now gone and been replaced, one brick at a time, with a different religion?
What's that proverb about dropping a frog into boiling water and it will jump out, but put it in a pan of cool water and bring it to the boil slowly to cook it. Your father is that frog.