Posts by Sauerkraut

20

Reasoning on "It doesn't matter if the FDS are wrong"

by konceptual99 in

i had a bit of chat with my wife last night after she was worried that i was less than enthusiastic about the ministry this morning.

i expressed that i was slightly confused about the generations and how it's kept changing despite 1914 etc.

being a core doctrine.

Sauerkraut

@00DAD:

Except there is no F&DS. It is only the WT leadership which is ostensibly the Governing Body, but also likely a team of lawyers, accountants and other highly influential individuals at the helm of this thing. Then there is the trickle down effect: District Overseers, Circuit Overseers, local Elders ....

No matter what or who is really leading this ship, the question could also be phrased "Whether WT/JW 'Theology' is wrong or not is a crucial question."

If it's wrong, we shouldn't believe it. We certainly shouldn't pretend to believe it when we don't and no one should be sactioned for saying that don't believe something that is wrong or cannot be proved true. This is the real problem with WT/JW Policies, Rules and Practices: JWs are forced to believe or pretend to believe falsehoods or be disfellowshipped. It's ridiculous! It should be criminal.

You are correct. There is no FDS and it's used, overused actually, to promote a silly notion. That's what started my investigations and led me to believe that the "truth" is not what I thought it to be.

It's important to clarify your thinking on this point. This is a common error on the part of JWs that is deliberately confused by the WT leadership to create confusion, anxiety and a false sense of loyalty to the organization rather than to Jesus. Carefully re-read what Peter actually said:

“Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life; and we have believed and come to know that you are the Holy One of God.” – John 6:68-69

Notice Peter said "whom" not "where". If you want to follow Jesus, then follow Jesus. The "organization" is unnecessary.

My post was badly phrased. What I meant to say is that Peter addressed Jesus himself as the focal point, the key, not any kind of organization. That this scripture is applied to the organization is another silly notion, which should be easily noticed, but isn't. Took me long enough as well. What gets me so angry regarding the Governing Body is how the mislead and usurp Christ's authority. In a way, if you use the parable of the faithful slave, they try to keep the master out and become master themselves.

38

Why we really SHOULD trust the Governing Body...

by cedars in

this well-reasoned youtube video explains it all.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwjm5d9m1lm.

it seems that, in my haste to scrutinize the teachings of the governing body and see whether they are actually in line with bible teachings, i have overlooked one important factor which indicates that they really can be trusted as those "taking the lead" in god's organization..... ...apparently, their weekly meetings sometimes run past 5 o'clock!!

i would like to apologise for any undue criticism i may have levelled at the governing body on this forum or elsewhere.. if i had been aware of the above information, i would obviously have been far more willing to humbly accept their leadership.. .

Sauerkraut

Ah, that talk, used to have it on MP3. I'm sure they really know what it's like... No wonder their meetings take longer than 5 o'clock, gotta fix those generation teachings and find new calculations to fix the 1914 teaching too...

4

Why do 7 million + people keep excusing ,rationalising , justifying ,failed expectations of prophecy`s these past 130 + years of Jehovah`s Witnesses non events

by smiddy in

how many times can you excuse failed expectations.

how many times can you justify altering interpretations of scripture.

how many times can you rationalise "new light".

Sauerkraut

What if they aren't rationalizing at all? What if most are simply so convinced of having the only truth and being in the only true religion that they don't need to rationalize. After all, the leadership is made up of imperfect men, but it's still God's Organization. Repeat it often enough and it becomes "truth". And most don't even know about all the failed predictions in the past. Even 1975 is forgotten about.

It's the internal override circuit board.

20

Reasoning on "It doesn't matter if the FDS are wrong"

by konceptual99 in

i had a bit of chat with my wife last night after she was worried that i was less than enthusiastic about the ministry this morning.

i expressed that i was slightly confused about the generations and how it's kept changing despite 1914 etc.

being a core doctrine.

Sauerkraut

I will always remember one of my elder friends saying something along the lines of "anyway, even if this wasn't the truth, it's still the best way of life for me and my family".

I was wondering the other day whether that answer was meant seriously, or was it just a programmed response?

Cedars, it must be programmed, I've heard the same response before. Here's what I hold against it: if the way of life is so great and the hassle and pressure are so wonderful, then why is everyone tired and hoping the end will come tomorrow? Something must be wrong.

Whether the FDS is wrong is a crucial question. If they are, then perhaps we should stop listening to them and stop following. Especially if someone sincerely wants to be a Christian. Perhaps following them won't help us to "make it into the new order". The "where would we go" attitude is bothersome. Peter said that to Jesus. He's the key, not some group or organization. At best a group or organization can help us keep on the way, but they cannot replace or become the way.

After being raised in the truth it's still a strange thing to realize that our life and happiness doesn't depend on belonging to a group. It's going to take a while to get rid of that deeply ingrained thought of "leave and be doomed". Basically the Society wants us to be mature but only teaches and trains us to be fully dependent on it, not thinking and mature people and Christians. Their idea of maturity is surely not what Paul had in mind.

35

Have You Ever Spoken To An Elder About Your True Feelings About "The Truth"?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i've has conversations with certain elder friends but i never gave them a total pummeling, at least i haven't yet.. what about you?.

Sauerkraut

Last thing I would ever do is tell any Elders about my thoughts and feelings. The reason is that usually they only want to bring our thinking back in line, correct our viewpoints so we're back to "normal". Only that we aren't unnormal. Nothing is wrong with my thoughts and what I feel about the Society and our leaders. The impression I've had for years regarding Elders and also CO's is that they just want us to function, that's all. Don't be inactive, turn in your reports every month so nothing seems out of the ordinary.

30

Crisis of Conscience, Apostacy and the Antichrist

by konceptual99 in

i've just finished reading coc and it's truely a thought provoking book that's given me much to think about.. one thing that has struck me is the way rf was disfellowshipped and how he tried to reason with the elders on the jc.

a key point of reasoning was that how the elders could define the disassocated one he ate with as "the antichrist" or one practicing the things described in 1 cor 9. apparently the elders either remain silent on the matter or said it was not for them to judge.. i thought the reasoning was really sound but i have been doing some checking on the definition of apostacy and the antichrist according to the society and it seems pretty clear to me that anyone guilt of apostacy becomes part of the antichrist.

characteristics of apostacy as defined in the it-1 book are described as follows:.

Sauerkraut

Konceptual99, I sent you a PM.

30

Crisis of Conscience, Apostacy and the Antichrist

by konceptual99 in

i've just finished reading coc and it's truely a thought provoking book that's given me much to think about.. one thing that has struck me is the way rf was disfellowshipped and how he tried to reason with the elders on the jc.

a key point of reasoning was that how the elders could define the disassocated one he ate with as "the antichrist" or one practicing the things described in 1 cor 9. apparently the elders either remain silent on the matter or said it was not for them to judge.. i thought the reasoning was really sound but i have been doing some checking on the definition of apostacy and the antichrist according to the society and it seems pretty clear to me that anyone guilt of apostacy becomes part of the antichrist.

characteristics of apostacy as defined in the it-1 book are described as follows:.

Sauerkraut

Konceptual99, I'm in a similar situation. Still in and don't want to be forced out too quickly. Sadly if you really look at it, JWs are an organization of Apostates. We teach a lot of things that are not in line with what Christ taught and what Christians in the first century believed. Check out two scriptures- Galatians 1:6 and 5:1. On whose authority do we teach a new good news? Surely not Christ's. The latter scripture shows that we have freedom as Christians. The JW view and definition of Apostasy goes way beyond what the scritpures say and is judgemental as well. Should we judge?

What I don't understand is: why do you think you have to comply when some day the elders confront you? You don't. Should I find myself in the situation that my doubts and beliefs that are contrary to WT doctrine become known to the elders, I will simply ignore them. Should they try to force a judicial committee on me, I won't go along with it, they can't force me. The authority they have only goes as far as we let them and we don't have to waste our time reasoning with them. And while we should try to be peacable, we don't have to make it easy for them to enforce policies that are not really scriptural.

If you really want to minimize risk, don't speak about your doubts to anyone still "in".

84

Disfellowshipped for Being Raped!

by UnDisfellowshipped in

march 8th 1974 issue, pages 13-16:.

"scream!

scream!

Sauerkraut

^You have an excellent point LongHairGal.

15

Organizational statuses

by lostinthought in

jw
friends

Sauerkraut

Lostinthought, I'm glad it's not just me that is bothered by that silly attitude. People focusing on "status" really are narrow minded. But think about it, it's imparted into people's minds. How many "regular" guys get interviews on assemblies or conventions? About how many regular guys do you read in the magazines? How often are speakers on assemblies introduced as "Elder from Congregation soandso...", who cares, aren't all speakers Elders anyway? That's how it starts. Witnesses are nothing to outsiders (at least so they think) that's why they have to be someone in the Org.

51

District Convention Points Saturday 21-07-2012 New Light? Governing Body Is Our Mother?

by Bubblegum Apotheosis in

i have been trying to wrap my head around the talk that introduced the slave as our mother?

the brothers at bethel are worried that we are not treating our spiritual mother with respect.

jehovah is our father, the faithful slave (the governing body) is our spiritual mammy.

Sauerkraut

Honor the visible spirit anointed slave class as our Mother? I thought that most of them have mental issues? Seven older Men (what they really mean but are still afraid to say openly) to be my Mother isn't something I feel too fond of. Nah, thanks. This is really getting idolatrous.