Posts by RWC

26

how do we know when we interpretate correctly?

by evangelist in

i would like your help on this matter of the interpretation of the bible, because many people say we interpretate diffently and we have diffent understanding.

how do we know when we interpretate the bible correctly?.

i have a relative for instance says the gay sex life is ok and they interpretated the bible to back up the right to live a gay life.. how can i prove their interpretation is wrong?.

RWC

Joseph, I can't believe it, but for once we agree. The Bibl does indeed teach that homosexuality is a sin against God. It is condemned. That does not mean that two men or two women cannot have a nonsexual loving relationship. Those who try to find support for a sexual same sex realtionship in the Bible are adding to the text or ignoring its plain teaching. See 1 Cor. 6:9. That does not mean that those who havge practiced homosexuality or any other sexual immorality that is considered a sin will forever be barred from Heaven. If they repent and accept Jesus as their savior they can be sanctified and enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. See again 1 Cor. 6:9.

Don't get too excited Joesph, I am sure our agreement on this teaching is a rare event.

13

Gospel Story Plagiarized from Scripture

by JosephAlward in

in this post i present evidence that marks story about jesus' feeding of loaves and fishes to the five thousand followers on the shore of the sea of galilee is a fictional story constructed from various passages in the old testament... .

i will place over them one shepherd, my servant david, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd.

(ezekiel 34:23).

RWC

Joseph,

Psalm 23 is alot more than still waters and green pastures. Where does Mark say that during this event Jesus restored their soul, guides them to paths of righteousness, where do they walk through the valley of death and fear no evil, where is the rod and the staff to comfort them, where does he talk about preparing a table in the presence of their enemies, where does he annoint their heads with oil? If Mark was making the story up to invoke Psalm 23 why didn't he include these items? They would be alot more recognizable then saying that people sat down in the grass by the sea of Galilee. Where else would MArk say they sat down? Do you think that because he used the word green to describe the grass that he was invoking Pslam 23? It makes no sense and there is not connection from which to reach the conclusion that he made the event up, which is what you are really trying to argue.

As for the garden of Gesthemane, if you read Mark you will find that Peter was with him in the garden. Mark doesn't say how Peter knew he was speaking with Elisha and Moses, but what is your point? What does the fact that he didn't include this prove?

I will discuss the authorship of Matthew in another respoonse when I have more time.

I believe the Bible is without contradiction and error. To the extent that you can address what you think are errors or contradictions I believe that these are really our lack of understanding or interpretations. The Bible is a remarkable book. It is in reality multiple books written over thousands of years by many different authors. The fact that it is so consistent is a testament to its divine nature.

As for I Samuel, that is what the Bible says and what God ordered. If you have questions about why God ordered that, ask him. Pray to him about it for understanding and insight.

13

Gospel Story Plagiarized from Scripture

by JosephAlward in

in this post i present evidence that marks story about jesus' feeding of loaves and fishes to the five thousand followers on the shore of the sea of galilee is a fictional story constructed from various passages in the old testament... .

i will place over them one shepherd, my servant david, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd.

(ezekiel 34:23).

RWC

Joseph, You build your arguments on assumptions without any basis. If you read Mark you have to admit that he intended for people to take this account as a literal event. Anything that he intended to be read as a parable he quoted Jesus. What you are assuming is that he madeup this event as if it was a parable and changed the way he presented every other parable reflecting the teachings of Jesus. You are also wrong when you say that Mark did not tell his readers when there was a parable being presented. See Chapter 7:17 and Chapter 12.

I do not disagree that there are similarities betwenn Elisha and this event. You can point to them. However, it is your burden to prove that simply because of this Mark invented the feeding event based upon the account with Elisha. Remember, not only did Mark "invent " this account, but so did Peter who add most likely recounted it to Mark, as did Luke, who as an historian states that he had investigated everything and it was true, and Matthew who was a disciple and also recounted the event.

The Psalm similarites have been addressed before.

32

Jesus was a False Prophet

by JosephAlward in

as he sat upon mount of olives, jesus was telling his disciples about the end of the world and what they could expect just before that apocalyptic event.

they asked him, .

"when shall these things be?

RWC

You are mixing two seperate events. The prophecy in Matt. 16 was fulfilled when the disciples witnessed the transfiguration.

13

Gospel Story Plagiarized from Scripture

by JosephAlward in

in this post i present evidence that marks story about jesus' feeding of loaves and fishes to the five thousand followers on the shore of the sea of galilee is a fictional story constructed from various passages in the old testament... .

i will place over them one shepherd, my servant david, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd.

(ezekiel 34:23).

RWC

Sorry for the delay Joseph, I was out of town. No I do not think that Mark was a disciple. As I have stated before, he was a disciple who was taught by Peter. He followed Paul and Barnabas on missionary trips. When I say he was writing what had happened, I mean that he intended for this event to be taken as a real event and not as a parable.

13

Gospel Story Plagiarized from Scripture

by JosephAlward in

in this post i present evidence that marks story about jesus' feeding of loaves and fishes to the five thousand followers on the shore of the sea of galilee is a fictional story constructed from various passages in the old testament... .

i will place over them one shepherd, my servant david, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd.

(ezekiel 34:23).

RWC

Joseph, I have no reason not to believe that Mark was reporting what actually happened. Mark's writing style does not lend itself to the poetic language that David uses in the Psalm. The language David used about still waters and green pastures is meant to invoke peace and protection. As I said before it is not a physical location. Jesus did not lead the people to the sea of Galilee, nor did he have the people lay down in the grass in a means to protect them. That was simply where they were when the event took place.

Mark clearly was writing what happened. Whenever he told a parable, he indicated that the parable was being told by Jesus. If this was a "parable" that was made up he could have easily had Jesus tell a parable about a few people being fed on a little food instead of reporting it as an actual event. The message he was conveying would have been the same.

To hold to your logic you will have to claim that all of the miracles explained by Mark are made up or copied from Old Testament. There is no basis to make this claim.

You are saying that Mark had no basis to truly know the events in Jesus' life but that he made up this person and all that he did from his imagination and Old testament scriptures.How would you explain all of the other aspects of Jesus' life explained by Mark- his travels, who he talked to, what he told the disciples, the trial by Pilate, the death, etc... Where would Mark's basis be to copy these events if your theory is to hold true? If it is his imagination don't forget that he would have to be smart enough to know all of the Messianic prophecies, he would not be able to contradict any of them with Jesus' life if he was to be believed to be the Messiah. You will have to invent a motive for this to be made up with the idea that Mark had something to gain. You will have to explain where he came up with the ideas that turned Jewish social structures on their head and explain why at the same time he was copying the old testament he was changing what the Jewish people had believed for centuries through this new made up Messiah. And you will have to explain why Mark would invent the exact opposite Messiah the the people were looking for, one that would be killed by Rome instead of overthrowing them. Then explain why the other disciples, Gospel writers and Paul would continue to make up stories about this made up Messiah and why they went to their deaths for Mark's fairy tale.

It is illogical and makes no sense.

13

Gospel Story Plagiarized from Scripture

by JosephAlward in

in this post i present evidence that marks story about jesus' feeding of loaves and fishes to the five thousand followers on the shore of the sea of galilee is a fictional story constructed from various passages in the old testament... .

i will place over them one shepherd, my servant david, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd.

(ezekiel 34:23).

RWC

Joseph, the question is not whether there are similar facts in each story, but whether there is any evidence to support your conclusion that Mark made up the feeding story based upon copying these events for the purpose of fictionalizing Jesus' activities. Simply because there are similarities doesn't make this conclusion supportable.

The fact is that God supplied the food to Elisha and Moses and Jesus as God supplied the food to the people on the hill. Miracles all of them.

As for the Pslam reference, that is a real stretch. Where does Mark say that the waters are calm. When David wrote the Pslam he was referring to God's providence for all of his needs and his protection in times of trouble. He was not referring to a physical location that would need to be copied by Mark.

39

Timeless Truths in the Bible

by JosephAlward in

some of my favorites are:.

"man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: as one dies, so dies the other.

all have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal.

RWC

Pete, I was referring to the stone discovered at Dan. It refers to a victory of the King of Damascus and is from the ninth century BCE The acutal inscription translated is as follows:

my father went up...and my father died, he went to his fate Isreal formerly in my father's land...I fought against Israel and Hadud went in front of me...my king. And I slew them... the king of Israel... And I slew the king of the house of David...and I put their land other...led over Israel...seige upon.

My understanding is that mainstream Biblical archeologists have accepted this as the proper translation. Additionally, other inscriptions were found at the same location which mentioned two other defeated monarchs: Jehoram, King of Israel and Ahaziah King of Judah. Scholars think that the battle that is being commemorated is the one described in 2 Chronicles 22:5.

13

Gospel Story Plagiarized from Scripture

by JosephAlward in

in this post i present evidence that marks story about jesus' feeding of loaves and fishes to the five thousand followers on the shore of the sea of galilee is a fictional story constructed from various passages in the old testament... .

i will place over them one shepherd, my servant david, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd.

(ezekiel 34:23).

RWC

Joseph,

You have made this argument before and it still has the same problem with it. You pick random passages from the Old Testament and without any support or evidence jump to the conclusion that the Gospel writers picked these passages to fabricage the story of Jesus. That is an unsupported and illogical leap to make.

First, your various quotes about a sheperd are just a few that make mention of a sheperd in the Bible. This was a common analogy to make, particularly in a culture where people raised sheep and goats. God is referred to as a sheperd by David in his Psalms. The leaders of Isreal are referred to sheperds throughout the Bible. Jesus refers to himself as a sheperd in the quotes that are ascribed to him. The point is that the mere fact that the role of a sheperd in this culture being used as an anaolgy for guidance from God and leaders does not mean that the Gospels are fake or that Mark pulled these analogies to invent Jesus. You can say the same thing about everytime the Temple, the sea, sandels, tunics or other items are mentioned in both the Old and New Testament. It is not a logical connection and certainly not any evidence of plagerism.

39

Timeless Truths in the Bible

by JosephAlward in

some of my favorites are:.

"man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: as one dies, so dies the other.

all have the same breath; man has no advantage over the animal.

RWC

Joseph,

Your interpretation of Ecclesiates that the writer is telling us there is no afterlife is incorrect.You need to read the last verse: 12:14- For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

This judgment is in the afterlife. Soloman is telling us in Ecclesiates to enjoy your lot in life because God gave you that life as a gift. However, life can be hard and if you try to find worth in wordly things you will be disappointed.

Also, there is evidence that David was a real person. On a a stone tablet of one of the people he defeated ( I can't recall the nation, but have a reference for it), He is mentioned as defeating their army. He is named and he is described as the King of Isreal.