Posts by konceptual99

16

How many doubting Thomases?

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

as an active witness atm i speak reguarly with friends and family who are also active.

it seems however that there are some things that people are comfortable discussing such as beards (whats the problem) and birthdays (everyone would if they could) and, if you are with close friends, things like confusion over the generations, pressure of keeping all the balls juggled, harshness of rules around da/df ones along with long lapsed family and to some extent blood.. my guess is that there are many more who may be in a similar state of mind to me and wondering if it really is all worth it.

it makes me wonder about how many with express themselves more if they could?

konceptual99

As an active witness ATM I speak reguarly with friends and family who are also active. It seems however that there are some things that people are comfortable discussing such as beards (whats the problem) and birthdays (everyone would if they could) and, if you are with close friends, things like confusion over the generations, pressure of keeping all the balls juggled, harshness of rules around DA/DF ones along with long lapsed family and to some extent blood.

My guess is that there are many more who may be in a similar state of mind to me and wondering if it really is all worth it. It makes me wonder about how many with express themselves more if they could? Is there actually a substantial proportion of the active base, esp in the west, that could falter if not caught in this grip of fear of rejection by friends and family?

I guess there's no way of knowing for sure but doesn't stop me wondering.

60

New here

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

i am new here, been lurking for a while but felt compeled to join as i would like to comment on more and more of the topics i come across.

by way of an introduction here is some info about me.. i am an active jw, married with a family, living in the uk.

i serve as a ms and have done for many years.

konceptual99

Thanks again for all the messages of support and welcome. I've also been looking at some stories of ones that have been in very similar positions and I can see so many of the same issues over and over again.

One of the reoccuring themes is that of a real lack of love and compassion from some of the elders. When I look at the local body they are far from perfect but I can think of many good qualities for each one. What I am sure of however is that all of them would hang me out to dry (however reluctantly) if could ever be accused of apostacy - the top down thinking ensures that any thoughts of trying to understand, contextualise and accept ones with doubts is completely blown out of the window if the so called weak one expresses any other sentiments than accepting what they know to be dubious at best or ignoring it on the basis of waiting for Jehovah. I've seen what happens when elders (let alone Joe Publisher) try and show true Christlike compassion that should overrule organisation edicts - it's not nice. All the comments on discretion are completely understood.

It's a great shame because right now I feel like I am being incredibly duplicitous and deceitful to my wife. She is liberal and open minded in many ways but is not ready to expand critical thinking to core tenents of her faith. I have much to study and meditate on myself so can understand why so many have advised to do that and make sure of my facts and thinking.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

162

No more 3-day DCs starting in 2013?

by respectful_observer in

apologies if there is another recent thread on this, but i have heard from 4 different people in 3 different geographic areas (including someone who does advance work for the dcs), that beginning in 2013 the three day dc program will be replaced by a second two-day circuit assembly.

some people were passing the info along like a secret, others seemed to think that everyone already knew.. if everyone in j-dub land is already talking about this, how is it not all over this forum??.

anyway, can anyone confirm or deny?.

konceptual99

Park in Falmer or Moulsecoomb next time George. Pretty much everyone went by coach, rail or parked in the car park. Street parking was clear and no problems.

Apparently there was a letter about not parking in the streets but I was away when they read it apparently.

60

New here

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

i am new here, been lurking for a while but felt compeled to join as i would like to comment on more and more of the topics i come across.

by way of an introduction here is some info about me.. i am an active jw, married with a family, living in the uk.

i serve as a ms and have done for many years.

konceptual99

Good advice one and all. I've no idea how all of this will turn out. I know I love my wife and kids and want the best for them. I know I can't dismiss everything I have believed since my childhood overnight. I know there are many sincere and good people that I associate with. I know I have a lot to be thankful for in my life that I attribute to the way I have been brought up and the principles that are there in the Bible.

I also know I can't be in a no mans land forever. If the "truth" is really not the "truth" then what's the point of subjecting myself and my family to the rules and regulations?

162

No more 3-day DCs starting in 2013?

by respectful_observer in

apologies if there is another recent thread on this, but i have heard from 4 different people in 3 different geographic areas (including someone who does advance work for the dcs), that beginning in 2013 the three day dc program will be replaced by a second two-day circuit assembly.

some people were passing the info along like a secret, others seemed to think that everyone already knew.. if everyone in j-dub land is already talking about this, how is it not all over this forum??.

anyway, can anyone confirm or deny?.

konceptual99

quoting George... (not sure how to quote properly yet)

There was no announcement regarding next year but rumour has it we are back at AMEX again next year

...

The speaker in the final talk after thanking all the Amex staff etc. did say that we all hoped to be back next year.

I've not said anything about 2 day DCs to anyone I know and I've not heard any rumours about it amongst our friends.

12

Im told that the speaker at the convention (Perth, Scotland), advised witnesses to stock up a months food. Anyone confirm?

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

konceptual99

There has been a letter read out over the past couple of weeks at all congs I know about about grab bags. The advice is basically...

- no one knows when some kind of disaster may strike be it from the weather, earthquakes, volcanos, terrorism etc.

- we may be some days away from help, especially from the society

- good idea to have a "grab bag" of essentials like food, water, medication and key insurance/identity documents etc.

- think about 3-5 days of supplies

It's not crazy advice taken in the wider context but from the discussion it's generated it's a good way of dropping some excitement into the mix, promoting a sense of forboding/urgency and encouraging speculation about "what else do the society know"?

60

New here

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

i am new here, been lurking for a while but felt compeled to join as i would like to comment on more and more of the topics i come across.

by way of an introduction here is some info about me.. i am an active jw, married with a family, living in the uk.

i serve as a ms and have done for many years.

konceptual99

@cedars/@cantleave

Thanks for the comments again - I completely understand what you are saying. This is a situation that is as clear as mud to me at the moment and I really do appreciate your comments on how I can make it clearer - that's why I am here.

As pointed out it's a set of massive dilemmas ATM....

60

New here

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

i am new here, been lurking for a while but felt compeled to join as i would like to comment on more and more of the topics i come across.

by way of an introduction here is some info about me.. i am an active jw, married with a family, living in the uk.

i serve as a ms and have done for many years.

konceptual99

PM - sorted

In principle I understand what you are saying @cantleave but are you implying that in someway I am abusing my children by taking a course of action that makes them standout and inferring that I should up sticks ASAP to avoid damaging them for life? I suspect this is an emotive subject and I am new here so I don't want to start a heated debate about the potential damage from standing out as different at school but I don't think this is straight-forward. Suffice to say, I don't want to hurt my kids but it's not as simple as just saying "off you go and celebrate Christmas and Birthdays".

60

New here

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

i am new here, been lurking for a while but felt compeled to join as i would like to comment on more and more of the topics i come across.

by way of an introduction here is some info about me.. i am an active jw, married with a family, living in the uk.

i serve as a ms and have done for many years.

konceptual99

Thanks for the comments.

@AnnOMaly - I can't see your PM as when I click on it I get a server error. I will raise in tech support.

Re comments on kids - yes I have kids. As I was raised a witness I know what it is like and I know it can sometimes be hard for them but they are doing well in all areas. Both myself and my wife are pretty liberally minded so they have friends in school, go on trips and I would never discourage them from ensuring they are well educated. Part of my wranglings are the moment are that I know they can have a good time and get values that will help them in life - I know I did. I also know that those values can be installed anyway and that I don't want them turning into self-righteous clones.

60

New here

by konceptual99 in

jw
friends

i am new here, been lurking for a while but felt compeled to join as i would like to comment on more and more of the topics i come across.

by way of an introduction here is some info about me.. i am an active jw, married with a family, living in the uk.

i serve as a ms and have done for many years.

konceptual99

Hi,

I am new here, been lurking for a while but felt compeled to join as I would like to comment on more and more of the topics I come across. By way of an introduction here is some info about me.

I am an active JW, married with a family, living in the UK. I serve as a MS and have done for many years. I was raised as a witness as was my wife.

I have never been a trouble-maker, even as a teenager, but never been exemplary either. I've never regular pioneered, bethel etc. and only aux pioneered a couple of times. I've always tried to take things seriously but, thanks to my parents, have always had a more liberal approach to things which is just one reason why I have been happy being an MS for getting on for 20 years and don't feel the need to "reach out" to be an elder.

Over the years I've grown increasingly cynical about various things to the point where I cannot get my head around several aspects of the teachings anymore. For example...

- blood. The whole thing is an illogical mess. To me, if you think the Bible forbids transfusions then simply don't take it. Don't try an squeeze the gnat over what is blood and isn't blood. Don't avoid the whole bizarre ruling that makes it OK to benefit from blood that has been donated, stored then processed whilst quite happily forbidding the contrbution of the raw material on the basis it should be poured out. Don't make out there are no sanctions for having a transfusion of forbidden components yet secretly make it a DA by actions offence.

On the other hand, if you think that the real point is about respect for life and recognition of who we owe our life to then you could make the whole issue far more reasonable, sensible and in line with Jesus' approach.

- origin of life. I am really concerned that the society are simply burying their heads in the sand over this. It's all well and good to produce articles that point to marvellous aspects of nature but simply to say "ask yourself, did this occur by chance or was it designed" is simplistic. What about the wealth of evidence of human like fossils? What about places like Doggerland where it is clear people were active over 10,000 years ago? What about the vast improvements in carbon dating that place bones and artifiacts well before 6000 years ago. I know there are arguments about carbon levels in the atmosphere etc. but to completely disregard all the science that is out there and not address it at all smacks of there being no reasonable argument other than "just trust our interpretation of the Bible".

- Noah's flood. I can't square the circle on this for loads of reasons

- Birthdays. Seems completely arbitary. Of course it can be justified but does it make sense?

- Generations. As soon as the last change on this came out I said that the GB had given themselves decades more on the basis there is an overlap. So few of the people I discussed this with grasped this. The whole thing seems like a clutching at straws.

etc. etc.....

I'd not even come across the 607 issue until I looked here....

The fact is that I question so much now and lots of that completely undermines the whole basis of the "truth". That's pretty scary as I simply don't know what to do about it.

If I could sit back and live my life as I feel is right with no consequences then I probably would. The reality is that most of my family are friends are witnesses. We have great and close friends, our children have a great time with their cousins and friends in the truth. To follow a path that might lead to me being branded an apostate is too much right now. I could fade but that seems like you could end up in a no-mans land of not being a trusted witness anymore yet not being able to do anything you want for fear of being shunned - sounds like a recipe for mental torture if you ask me.

So there you have an insight into where I am now. It seems like I am not the only one. There are some really good aspects to life as a witness and I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater but there are so many doubts now that I feel like I am in limbo. How long can I "wait for Jehovah"?