New here

by konceptual99 60 Replies latest jw friends

  • konceptual99
    konceptual99

    Hi,

    I am new here, been lurking for a while but felt compeled to join as I would like to comment on more and more of the topics I come across. By way of an introduction here is some info about me.

    I am an active JW, married with a family, living in the UK. I serve as a MS and have done for many years. I was raised as a witness as was my wife.

    I have never been a trouble-maker, even as a teenager, but never been exemplary either. I've never regular pioneered, bethel etc. and only aux pioneered a couple of times. I've always tried to take things seriously but, thanks to my parents, have always had a more liberal approach to things which is just one reason why I have been happy being an MS for getting on for 20 years and don't feel the need to "reach out" to be an elder.

    Over the years I've grown increasingly cynical about various things to the point where I cannot get my head around several aspects of the teachings anymore. For example...

    - blood. The whole thing is an illogical mess. To me, if you think the Bible forbids transfusions then simply don't take it. Don't try an squeeze the gnat over what is blood and isn't blood. Don't avoid the whole bizarre ruling that makes it OK to benefit from blood that has been donated, stored then processed whilst quite happily forbidding the contrbution of the raw material on the basis it should be poured out. Don't make out there are no sanctions for having a transfusion of forbidden components yet secretly make it a DA by actions offence.

    On the other hand, if you think that the real point is about respect for life and recognition of who we owe our life to then you could make the whole issue far more reasonable, sensible and in line with Jesus' approach.

    - origin of life. I am really concerned that the society are simply burying their heads in the sand over this. It's all well and good to produce articles that point to marvellous aspects of nature but simply to say "ask yourself, did this occur by chance or was it designed" is simplistic. What about the wealth of evidence of human like fossils? What about places like Doggerland where it is clear people were active over 10,000 years ago? What about the vast improvements in carbon dating that place bones and artifiacts well before 6000 years ago. I know there are arguments about carbon levels in the atmosphere etc. but to completely disregard all the science that is out there and not address it at all smacks of there being no reasonable argument other than "just trust our interpretation of the Bible".

    - Noah's flood. I can't square the circle on this for loads of reasons

    - Birthdays. Seems completely arbitary. Of course it can be justified but does it make sense?

    - Generations. As soon as the last change on this came out I said that the GB had given themselves decades more on the basis there is an overlap. So few of the people I discussed this with grasped this. The whole thing seems like a clutching at straws.

    etc. etc.....

    I'd not even come across the 607 issue until I looked here....

    The fact is that I question so much now and lots of that completely undermines the whole basis of the "truth". That's pretty scary as I simply don't know what to do about it.

    If I could sit back and live my life as I feel is right with no consequences then I probably would. The reality is that most of my family are friends are witnesses. We have great and close friends, our children have a great time with their cousins and friends in the truth. To follow a path that might lead to me being branded an apostate is too much right now. I could fade but that seems like you could end up in a no-mans land of not being a trusted witness anymore yet not being able to do anything you want for fear of being shunned - sounds like a recipe for mental torture if you ask me.

    So there you have an insight into where I am now. It seems like I am not the only one. There are some really good aspects to life as a witness and I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater but there are so many doubts now that I feel like I am in limbo. How long can I "wait for Jehovah"?

  • pontoon
    pontoon

    Welcome!! I understand your posistion and feelings. Only the more you THINK the more you will begin to detest going to meetings, service, DO & CO & GB worship, and the phoniness of many. But you have to take things at a comfortable pace for you. Just don't give them anymore of your money. Again, welcome.

  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    Take it slow, dont tell anyone what you discover. Your wife is a high priority and your outcome will depend on the strength of your marriage and what type of person she is.

    Read a lot, do the research, double check everything.

    Some books to read:

    Crisis of Conscience - Ray Franz

    Combatting Cult Mind Control - Steve Hassan

    The Gentile Time Reconsidered - Carl Olaf Jonsson

    Welcome to mental freedom, and yes it is worth the effort...

  • rather be in hades
    rather be in hades

    welcome :)

    it's not an easy transition. i do ask you, do you have children? if you do, for their sake, i would say get them out of the jw mindset sooner rather than later so they can adjust to life outside the watchtower organization. yo don't have to cut that part out of your life cold turkey, bt some on the sly after school activities and such would help as you transition out of the jw lifestyle. the sooner they learn how to be 'normal', the better. and for clarity's sake, that doesn't mean going wild, having sex, doing drugs, etc. normal just means...being a normal teenager. stressing about school, making friends, after school junk, you get the idea. if they want to strive for university, you'd be able to encourage that. we tend to literally think of the worldly people on the outside as godless heathens, even thogh it's not explicitly stated in such terms, that is the connotation that worldly people get and it's just not true. not every teenager is having sex with multiple partners at once while doing blow and keg stands simultaneously.

    if you don't have kids, then you can take your time. there's no rush getting out of the mindset. i'm currently trying to figure out a way to get my own mother out and even if i were able to snap my fingers and say, 'you're out of it!' i would still tell her to keep on the grin and bear it out for a while as she gets comfortable being away from the organization. all your friends are there. with not friendships and support sytem on the outside, it's a bit tough. how does your wife feel about everything? having people outside, or people making the journey with you is very helpful. if i didn't have friends outside of the jws, honestly i'd have probably ended back in there, but twice as miserable and ten times more depressed.

    i do hope all is well. take time with the forum and enjoy yourself. read everything with an open mind and don't take anything for face value, verify stuff. see that it's true. you can find the old watchtowers online.

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    Hi Konceptual,

    Your background sounds similar to mine. With same doubts that woke me up.

    Do you have kids? If so how important is it to you that they are not indoctrinated? For my wife (nugget) and I that was the most important reason for our leaving.

    There are lots of UK witnesses on here, all in different stages of leaving. I also run a UK meet-up site, and we try and have at least 3 events a year.

    If you need a listening ear, soundboard some strategies or just want to chat, feel free to contact me. My email address is:-

    [email protected]

    I also host a live chat for UK ExJW's on www.thebroadroad.com from 8pm on Fridays.

    I wish you the best of luck in your journey.

    ANGUS

  • Dold Agenda
    Dold Agenda

    Welcome!

    I was exactly like you 10 years ago..

    Then we realized that..

    JW is all a lie and crap with roots from the 1800...
    the bible is no more than an old book from king Josia that wanted to gather his people and maked therefore up a great history to them.
    Investigations has learned me that there is no Jehova either..

    we have now faded slowly away
    we are not DF or anything, relatives still talk to us but it is limited of course
    We moved to another city.
    We have new friends outside today... the kids have new better friends and it is going very well for them in their new school..

    (sorry for my spelling, english is not my native language..)

    Have you read raymond Franz Crisis of Consience?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Franz

    I think that was a wery humble but exposure book about JW...

    Stick around and write more!

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Welcome Konceptual99 ! I can empathise with your position, your life experience and your feelings at present.

    The first bit of advice I would give you if I may is, don't do anything in a hurry, there is no hurry, you have years of life ahead, and any decisions you make need to be sound ones, for your benefit and that of your family.

    I can empathise with you because my life in the WT org. paralled yours exactly, or really the other way round, I guess you are younger than me, I was born "when Jesus were a lad".

    We are here for you every step of the way, but there are steps, you are already on your spiritual journey, there is no going back, once you have "seen behind the curtain" like Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz you cannot get rid of that knowledge, just as a worldly kid when he realises Santa Claus is a fiction cannot go back to believing in him.

    So, you do have to chart your own way through the sea of life, but you are no different in that than most of the humans on Earth, some do sit back and leave it in good measure to their religion to steer them, be it the local Imam or what I call the New York Taliban, the GB of the WT, but now you are free to make your own valuable decisions for a good, worthy, productive and above all HAPPY life for you and your children, I wish you all the best.

    Take your time, baby steps are best, and ask away,P.M any of us if you prefer, we are here to help, we will not cajole, or decide for you, but I gurantee we will help you to see clearly.

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    I and hubby know EXACTLY the nightmare you are in, konceptual99.

    I've sent you a PM. Click on the envelope near your name at the top right of the page. When you try to access the message, you'll get 'error' (bug). Go back and/or refresh and click the message again and you should get it this time.

  • konceptual99
    konceptual99

    Thanks for the comments.

    @AnnOMaly - I can't see your PM as when I click on it I get a server error. I will raise in tech support.

    Re comments on kids - yes I have kids. As I was raised a witness I know what it is like and I know it can sometimes be hard for them but they are doing well in all areas. Both myself and my wife are pretty liberally minded so they have friends in school, go on trips and I would never discourage them from ensuring they are well educated. Part of my wranglings are the moment are that I know they can have a good time and get values that will help them in life - I know I did. I also know that those values can be installed anyway and that I don't want them turning into self-righteous clones.

  • cantleave
    cantleave

    To see PMs you need to click (get the error code), come out and reclick - you will now see the message!

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