Posts by konceptual99

14

email from a HLC member

by loosie in

just for shits and giggles (not because i want to be friends necessarily) i looked up an elder i used to know on facebook... what do you know he was there.

i asked him if he was still a jw?

he said yes.... i said funny i thought you'd be out because of all the changes in the blood doctrine.

The blood doctrine is one of the major aspects of my current crisis of conscience. For years I have found it less and less logical, especially when considering what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. It is completely illogical:

1.The categorisation of what is and isn't blood. Why the current lines in sand? Why the regular changes in understanding? Either blood isn't acceptable or it is.

2. The acceptance of cell saver technology in the face of the "blood must be poured out" command. If you are going to take the commands on face value (ignoring all the points about context regarding timing with Noah, Mosaic law and Acts) then can anyone really suggest this is not a convienent workaround just like modern jews using PIR technology to turn lights on and off on the sabbath since flicking a light switch is making a fire and therefore work.

3. Jesus showed the saving of life transcended the mosaic law.

4. The biggy for me - to get the benefit of blood fractions someone has to donate the stuff. We would face a JC if we did yet we are are prepared to use the product.

5. The impact on Jehovah's name. It's been an horrendous "witness" over the years. JWs are still known for this policy and no one can understand it.

The point to me is respect for life. If believe in God then the point is if you are showing respect for life and the source of the life. This straining of the gnat shows no respect for life.

You try watering down a birthday party and see how far it gets you... if you had a just a cake (no candles even) or just a couple of presents for you kids and let the elders know that you are just having "fractions of a birthday" - see how far you get. And that's on something that has far less clear room for interpretation as wrong than blood.

The whole thing is an absolute mess and should always have been a conscience thing at most. They will never really turn it around though thanks to not wanting to open up the WTS to being sued.

19

Sparlock

by biometrics in

so we have a jw next door who went to the assembly over the w/e.

yesterday she gave 'gift' to my wife for my kids.. that's right it was the sparlock dvd.

i didn't know about the gift until i saw my kids watching it this morning.. is it safe to let my kids watch it?.

konceptual99

Our kids (7-11) watched it once, laughed and can't be bothered with it any more. One viewing is not going to kill them, especially story 1 but if you are that worried then it can get lost somewhere no doubt.

I'd be more worried about the mental health of your neighbours. It sounds like that is reason enough not to have anything to do with it - surely your other half could see that if reasoned with?

59

Surprise Elder's Visit-FAIL

by iclone in

jw
friends

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konceptual99

marked

15

Daniel 8:20,21 - what do secular authorities say?

by konceptual99 in

i am looking for anything that suggests there is a rational explaination for daniel apparently predicting the rise of greece as a world power.

there is some stuff online suggesting that scholars years ago thought it was modified over time but evidence points to it having been written in the 6th centuary bc and they have been forced to correct their view.. is there anything anywhere that presents the accepted secular view of this passage?.

cheers.

konceptual99

WOW! Many thanks. I'd checked out wikipedia but, as I suspect, there is alot more detail out there.

Thanks again. I'm off to digest...

21

What would be the standing of a born-in who were always there (field work and all) but never baptized?

by dgp in

this may be an elementary question but i was never a jw.. i wonder if such a person can actually exist.. i assume a born-in knows basically all about jehovah's-witnesses by the time he is, say, 16. if he were to postpone baptism, this person would not be in the same situation as a worldly who doesn't know an iota of anything, but would not be a brother, either.

what would be his real standing?.

konceptual99

In principle their standing, assuming they maintained meeting association, field service etc. would be as an unbaptised publisher. The reality is that over time increasing levels of pressure would be placed on them to get baptised to the point where something would give.

In my experience if a young person is not baptised by 18 then there is very little chance of them ever doing so. I know no one who from the age of 16-17 remained as an unbaptised publisher for 2 or 3 years before they either got dunked or drifted away.

One interesting side point on this is that if a baptised young person dates an unbaptised publisher, even if they are in good standing, there is a strong chance that the local BoE will take a dim view of this - an elder or MS father may lose their privilages or the baptised witness could be marked. If they married an unbaptised publisher then the BoE is very likely to take the view they are marrying an unbeliever and if the father attends the wedding then it's an instant loss of privilages.

53

Anonymous have Bethelite info

by snare&racket in

jw
friends

konceptual99

100% agree that Anon (or anyone else for that matter) is not going to get anything of real value hacking externally. Bethel IT security is taken seriously, so much so that they have a UK based computer security specialist (witness of course) providing support to manage all the DoS and hacking attempts they get.

There is a database but it is not sitting anywhere that an externally based hacker is going to get to. The guys in Brooklyn are well aware of what people claiming to be associated with Anon are trying to do and it is a mistake to think that they have completely ignored what has been going on as a result of the Conti judgement.

The only way of digging up really meaningful dirt or info on deep level WTS procedures, policies and data is from the inside as MMM says.

15

Daniel 8:20,21 - what do secular authorities say?

by konceptual99 in

i am looking for anything that suggests there is a rational explaination for daniel apparently predicting the rise of greece as a world power.

there is some stuff online suggesting that scholars years ago thought it was modified over time but evidence points to it having been written in the 6th centuary bc and they have been forced to correct their view.. is there anything anywhere that presents the accepted secular view of this passage?.

cheers.

konceptual99

Hi,

I am looking for anything that suggests there is a rational explaination for Daniel apparently predicting the rise of Greece as a world power. There is some stuff online suggesting that scholars years ago thought it was modified over time but evidence points to it having been written in the 6th centuary BC and they have been forced to correct their view.

Is there anything anywhere that presents the accepted secular view of this passage?

Cheers

375

The Governing Body intends to announce significant changes in academic literature (DOCTRINES) - Brazil

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

dear randall.

good morning!.

here is the daniel of brazil (former bethel).. this week at the forum of former jehovah's witnesses had an interesting news!

konceptual99

@jeffro - You are absolutely right. Take for example the content of this and next weeks WT study - the image of Daniel.

In this article the WTS are documenting the material from the talk at last year's DC which did shed "new light" on this prophecy. How is this new light being communicated?

The change to the understanding of what makes up the toes and feet - this is not acknowledged at all. The new light is simply presented alongside a box asking "WHO MAKE UP ALL THESE KINGDOMS" which just debunks the old light without ever saying it was old light.

There is a footnote on para 5 regarding when the Anglo-American world power actually came into existence. The info in that footnote is "new light" as well but not acknowledged as such.

There is a QfR right after the article which does answer the question "WHEN DID THE ANGLO-AMERICAN WORLD POWER BECOME THE SEVENTH WORLD POWER OF BIBLE PROPHECY?" with more explaination of the "new light". There is a footnote to this that says this info "updates the information discussed on page 57, para 24, of the Daniel's Prophecy book and depicted in the charts on pages 56 and 139".

So... if you just read the articles you may miss the fact that this is "new light" first discussed a year ago. If you don't read the QfR then you will miss the "by the way this updates old light" footnote. Even if you do you may not appreciate that it is yet another change of doctrine.

The other thing to note is that article repeats the assertion that the anglo-american world power will be the dominant world power when Babylon the Great is destroyed. The speaker at the convention I attended in ths UK was clear that no other world powers would rise up. This is another message by implication used to raise expectation with no real commitment. "Wise ones" will read this as saying Armageddon is close by.

37

New light or did the speaker just pull this out his wazoo?

by pubtruth in

i went to the last day of the dc here in west palm beach, just to make my mother company.

wow, what a difference can a year outside the lie can do to perception.

it was the same crap as you'd expect but there is a plot twist: the speaker was so into the talk he was actually starting to shout and wound up mentioning that they now know how many angels will be needed to destroy everyone at armaggeddon.

konceptual99

Wazzo +1

24

Why would you make an 83 yr old woman go out in service????

by loosie in

i am trying to contact my mothers elders in riverside ca, because my mother doesn't talk to her family.

since that means at least 12 phone calls to various kh's i thought i'd start with my aunt to see what the name of the congegation is.

unfortunatly she didn't know.

konceptual99

Dunno if this will help but all the halls can be looked up on jw.org. Go to the main site, hit the lookup button then the Meetings option and you can search for halls, meeting times etc.