The current teaching regarding the "generation" is a pile of bollocks that pretty much no one, including most elders, understands let alone can explain just using the Bible.
konceptual99
JoinedPosts by konceptual99
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47
The Infamous May 15th 1984 Watchtower "1914: The Generation That Will Not Pass Away"
by PublishingCult in.
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i do not know how the blogger who posted this infamous wt cover (5/15/84) got all the names of those who posed for this magazine cover, or whether the names are even correct, but if he got it right, man, what a provocative statement.. .
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I am totally confoused who is the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class?
by booker-t ini have been hearing and reading on websites about some "new light" jws are saying concerning the faithful and discreet slave class.
it sounds like the same information they have been saying for years.
i was always taught the faithful and discreet slave class is the annoited governing body members dispensing food at the proper time for the non annoited jws.
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konceptual99
Agree with you Splash. Pretty much every witness I have spoken to didn't even think it was a change re the GB dispensing food. Only ONE person has appreciated the implications of the change regarding the examination yet this is a critical change. I am also amazed it's not in the WT yet and can only assume it will be a DC subject.
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greatest show on earth
by unstopableravens ini wanted to start this thread two weeks ago,however i have had alot going on with wifey and the elders,that is another thread.
to be honest my mind has been on my family.
i will be able to discuss the book tommorow morning.
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konceptual99
Great book, one if the key ones in my awakening. But it's not an atheist book - it's a book regarding the evidence for evolution. Evolution and a belief in God are not mutually exclusive - tough to make it work in my head but not impossible for many.
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What's the implication here...?
by konceptual99 inthe may awake is online and has articles on is god cruel?
one of the articles talks about divine judgements and discusses the canaanites.. see here... http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20130501/divine-judgments-were-they-cruel/.
at the end of article it says the following:.
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konceptual99
The May Awake is online and has articles on Is God Cruel? One of the articles talks about divine judgements and discusses the Canaanites.
See here... http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20130501/divine-judgments-were-they-cruel/
At the end of article it says the following:
HOW YOU ARE INVOLVED: We can learn a vital lesson from the judgment of the Canaanites. We are rapidly approaching the foretold “day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men.” (2 Peter 3:7) If we love Jehovah, we will benefit when he eliminates human suffering by ridding the earth of those who reject his just rule.
Jehovah lovingly reminds us that the choices parents make affect their children. God’s Word says: “You must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice and by sticking to him.” (Deuteronomy 30:19, 20) Are those the words of a cruel God or the words of a God who loves people and wants them to make the right choice?
Is the implication here that if a parent was to not be approved by God come Armageddon then their children will also be destroyed? Are the society just referring to a principle in general that parental behaviour affects their kids or is this a veiled threat regarding Armageddon?
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Useful links for downloading WT magazines...
by cedars infor those of you who like to keep up-to-date with the latest magazines without having to trawl through jw.org in order to get to them, here are some useful links to take you directly to the magazine you want.... watchtower (study edition): http://www.jw.org/apps/index.xjp?option=sffzrqvnznt&rln=e&rmn=w&rfm=pdf&rpf=&rpe=.
watchtower (simplified): http://www.jw.org/apps/index.xjp?option=sffzrqvnznt&rln=e&rmn=ws&rfm=pdf&rpf=&rpe=.
watchtower (public): http://www.jw.org/apps/index.xjp?option=sffzrqvnznt&rln=e&rmn=wp&rfm=pdf&rpf=&rpe=.
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konceptual99
Cheers Cedars. Links come up as XML documents inside Chrome... Not sure if that's a problem with Chrome or with the way the WT servers handle the requests from Chrome.
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Not meaning to sound sexist : In general are women more emotional/feel good about religion,and men more proof/doctrinal in their acceptance ?
by smiddy ini`m just speaking from my own experience here ,and it has occured to me that over the 33 years i was a witness and in the six congrgations i was a part of , except for a few exceptions, the majority of sisters in the congregations did not have a grasp of the so called deeper things of god,according to wt theology, sure they could run off " bible topics for discussion" sermons but very few could take a discussion any further than that.whereas i was aware that males seemed more likely to delve deeper into, not only the scriptures,but also the wt interpretations as a whole.
don`t get me wrong a few women left me for dead in their comprehension of topics ,but i`m just saying overall i found this to be the case ... my experience... smiddy.
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konceptual99
Got to agree with villagegirl. The view of women in the WT society is supposedly one of honour. Trouble is that phrases like "weaker vessel" coupled with an organisation that refuses to accept women on an equal footing breeds a disjointed and patronising attitude even amongst men that should know better. What is worse is that many women are culturally discouraged and restricted in achieiving their full potential.
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Not meaning to sound sexist : In general are women more emotional/feel good about religion,and men more proof/doctrinal in their acceptance ?
by smiddy ini`m just speaking from my own experience here ,and it has occured to me that over the 33 years i was a witness and in the six congrgations i was a part of , except for a few exceptions, the majority of sisters in the congregations did not have a grasp of the so called deeper things of god,according to wt theology, sure they could run off " bible topics for discussion" sermons but very few could take a discussion any further than that.whereas i was aware that males seemed more likely to delve deeper into, not only the scriptures,but also the wt interpretations as a whole.
don`t get me wrong a few women left me for dead in their comprehension of topics ,but i`m just saying overall i found this to be the case ... my experience... smiddy.
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konceptual99
I don't buy a straight forward difference between the sexes. It's more a case that the WT society is male dominated and full of men with limited education trying to prove how clever they are. I actually think that many of the sisters are far more spiritual and studious than most of the brothers. They, on the other hand, pontificate to try and justify their "superior" position.
There are plenty of men who just believe with a blind faith and plenty of women who have used their superior intellect to overcome cognative dissonence. In my experience, intellect, education and self confidence are the keys to the basis for your faith and the basis for breaking free of the shackles. These attributes have no inherent gender bias but sadly, subservience to the patriarchal WT society skews things far more in the favour of men.
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konceptual99
Hiya Phizzy,
Those of you going should be ashamed.
That's a little harsh isn't it? I am going because I it's not an option not to go right now. I am still trying to keep the peace at home on basics like meetings, field service and family study. Plus I am serving
I guess it's easy to point the finger at the ones who are already out and are popping along for the yearly ritual but each to their own. For some it may be the one thing that makes the difference between total rejection by friends/family and being able to live a normal life the rest of the year.
Perhaps this will be my last one... Cantleave did the talk at his last memorial!
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Pulling the rug out from under the "apostates"
by konceptual99 inwould anyone agree that recent comments and changes to wt doctrine are designed to try and pull the rug out from under long established counter reasoning put forward by those the wt would consider apostates?.
the section in the recent wt, whilst not an apology, is apologist in it's tone and suggests that the wt society has just been doing the right thing by setting expectations.. apostate: "you keep saying the end is coming and it still hasn't.".
wt - "well, our zeal in following jesus may have prompted us to raise expectations too much but we are only doing what we are asked to do.".
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konceptual99
Would anyone agree that recent comments and changes to WT doctrine are designed to try and pull the rug out from under long established counter reasoning put forward by those the WT would consider apostates?
For example:
1 - Wrong expectations. The section in the recent WT, whilst not an apology, is apologist in it's tone and suggests that the WT society has just been doing the right thing by setting expectations.
Apostate: "You keep saying the end is coming and it still hasn't."
WT - "Well, our zeal in following Jesus may have prompted us to raise expectations too much but we are only doing what we are asked to do."
2 - Generations. The current teaching along with a reduced emphasis on dates suggests that the WT can easily argue that it is not setting a time limit on things even though it constantly preaches the nearness of the end.
Apostate: "We are well over what anyone would reasonably suggest a generation is since 1914."
WT - "Well, the bible clearly shows that it is not 70/80 years, but an overlapping generation. Regardless, we are not focused on a date just on the fact the end will come. In line with that we are maintaining our preaching work through these last days however long Jehovah allows them to continue."
3 - F&DS definition. The change to the doctrine about who the F&DS are reduces the impact of the growing number of anointed ones.
Apostate: "If we are close to the end of the last days, why has the number of anointed ones grown by 50% in 6 years?"
WT: "Well, it's up to individual's conscience if they partake and there is biblical proof that the gathering of the 144000 continues through the last days. Regardless, the critical thing is that it is the group of anointed responsible for dispensing the spiritual food at the proper time are doing that faithfully since these are the ones that Jesus has asked to do this work and will soon examine once again so as to appoint over all his belongings. The rest of those that claim a heavenly calling we shall just have to leave to Jehovah to examine directly."
4 - F&DS appointment. The doctrine that Jesus did not appoint the F&DS over his belongings in 1918/19 means that all the false teachings at that time are irrelevant.
Apostate: "So, given the WT were teaching just rubbish in the lead up to 1914-19, how exactly was Jesus able to appoint them over all his belongings?"
WT: "Well, the facts are that he did not. Right now the F&DS have the role of dispensing food at the proper time to his domestics. This, they are trying to do as faithfully as possible. As light gets brighter so the food changes at the proper time. Jesus will at a future point inspect the F&DS once again and we are confident that our prayers shall be answered and an appointment over his belongings shall be forthcoming. After all, no other organisation on earth is preaching the truth and pointing mankind to God's kingdom."
5 - 607. Tricky one this as the evidence is overwhelming that it's the wrong date but they have recently published an updated rebuttal which is convincing for those who want to believe it.
Apostate: "607 is a crock of the brown stuff".
WT: "No it's not. This was recently addressed in the WT and we shall always follow scriptual, Bible chronology even if it has not yet been validated by secular historians. No doubt the future shall bring a validation of the biblical facts but even if not we know we are showing faith in Jehovah's written word."
Apostate: "But all your rebuttals have been comprehensively debunked."
WT: "Only by apostates and we know that no faithful witness would even read such Satanic material let alone be swayed by such lies."
On top of all of these there are the silences in the publications about anthropology, archeology, geology, biology, chemistry etc. where science is constantly throwing evidence of the age of humankind and the development of the natural world around is that contradicts the Bible over and over again. All they do is promote the views of a few educated ones and emotive comparisons (e.g. "what do you think, could this amazing thing in nature really have come about through evolution") and make it sound as if you must be mad to accept anything scientific where is disagrees with the Bible.
Have the WT society undermined a number of core arguments that thinking ones have been considering?
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Whats your opinion of the WTS. apologizing now for its past wrongful teachings ?
by Finkelstein insomething happened recently by the wts.
that doesn't rarely often and that is the wts.
executive editors apologizing for the organization's past mistakes and proclamations.
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konceptual99
Spot on Cedars. There is no apology and a straightforward implication that they can go right on setting expectations with no consequence - it's simply being alert.