yup - take the new F&DS "understanding". It wipes out the argument that points out that pretty much nothing the Bible Students believed in 1919 is still accepted therefore what the hell was Jesus approving when he appointed the F&DS "over the belongings". That is now future. Argument deflected.
konceptual99
JoinedPosts by konceptual99
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17
Has the Governing Body 2.0 commenced Phase I of OHP (Operation History Purge)?
by Calebs Airplane inwith the recent boe letter that atlantis posted on jwn regarding older publications that needed to be destroyed or discarded from all kingdom halls and the new on-line library on jw.org which only goes back to the year 2000, i wonder if the gb 2.0 is about to eliminate the wt library cd which contains watchtower mags all the way back to 1950. is there even a cd for 2012?
if there is, i think it'll be their last cd before they go all on-line.
either way, it clear that the gb 2.0 (aka fds) has a plan to erase any evidence of their unsustainable bs in the last 130 years....
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Contributions For Local KH VS. World Wide Work
by turtleturtle inseriously, if i am going to stay a jw for now, is there anything wrong with donating all for local kindom hall purposes, and simply not donate to the world wide work (wt)?
i mean, won't the local money just go to the kingdom hall expenses (among some other expenses)?
i'm telling you right now, the wt ain't getting my $ until things change!.
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konceptual99
The KH money should be used for expenses but in my experience any build up is deposited with the society so you could never say that money deposited for KH will not end up with society to pay off pedos.
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42
UK Xmas meal Portsmouth
by cantleave inthe portsmouth / southampton xmas meal has been booked.
1st december at the hungry horse, the farmhouse portsmouth burrfields road, portsmouth po3 5hh (same as last year).
arrive anytime after midday.
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konceptual99
Seagulls! Seagulls!
A nd you can tell them all that we stand and fall for good old Sussex by the sea.
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42
UK Xmas meal Portsmouth
by cantleave inthe portsmouth / southampton xmas meal has been booked.
1st december at the hungry horse, the farmhouse portsmouth burrfields road, portsmouth po3 5hh (same as last year).
arrive anytime after midday.
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konceptual99
Nice to meet you all yesterday. Sorry I had to dash but the "joys" of Ikea beckoned.
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UK Xmas meal Portsmouth
by cantleave inthe portsmouth / southampton xmas meal has been booked.
1st december at the hungry horse, the farmhouse portsmouth burrfields road, portsmouth po3 5hh (same as last year).
arrive anytime after midday.
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konceptual99
Hoping to pop in for five minutes if I can create enough of a diversion. You'll know me by the loaded watchtower in my hand. (only kidding)
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36
New Pattern regarding Science in the Awake
by konceptual99 inreading the first couple of awakes for 2013 i think there is a pattern developing.. they have the regular "could it have happened by chance" article on something amazing in nature but they are also interviewing a scientist who is also a witness.
this is a pretty interesting tack on a number of levels.. firstly it is sending out the implicit message that "look, this educated person accepts creation, the flood and every other account that is at odds with generally accepted science, so that should give you confidence that you are right as well".
secondly, as a magazine designed for public comsumption is suggests to non-witnesses that there are many well educated people who accept the bible.
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konceptual99
Love all the responses.
The use of university educated ones in Bethal and in Awake PR exercises is just another example of the double standards of the society. These ones are looked up to ("ooooo he's a lawyer and Bethal uses him to fight all the blood cases." grovel grovel fawn fawn lickity lick) yet they have to do their penance before hand either by having come in the truth after uni or having pioneered all the way through and licked enough arse on the way up.
It makes me sick that we are all to happy to use the dentist, doctor, solicitor, take the medicine developed by the chemist, reap the benefits of modern technology developed by engineers, read about the special attributes of "creation" discovered by the biologists etc. yet sideline any who wish to develop their potential as spiritually weak.
Acceptance of university education is at it lowest for years and it stinks.
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New Pattern regarding Science in the Awake
by konceptual99 inreading the first couple of awakes for 2013 i think there is a pattern developing.. they have the regular "could it have happened by chance" article on something amazing in nature but they are also interviewing a scientist who is also a witness.
this is a pretty interesting tack on a number of levels.. firstly it is sending out the implicit message that "look, this educated person accepts creation, the flood and every other account that is at odds with generally accepted science, so that should give you confidence that you are right as well".
secondly, as a magazine designed for public comsumption is suggests to non-witnesses that there are many well educated people who accept the bible.
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konceptual99
Yes he is indentified in the article as a Witness.
Regarding losing your privilages it is fair to say that it is not 100% a given. The wording in the Flock book allows for mercy, context, rationality, common sense and a balanced view to prevail since it says pursuit of a university education "may call into question" one's qualifications. The reality is that the recent couple of years has seen a hardening from the top down. BOEs are losing moderate elders and being taken over by the hardliners. The language of the society has got stronger. The underlying approach of the new Flock book stifles moderation despite the outward emphasis on shepherding with love.
The slight swing towards tolerance a few years ago has firmly swung back to condemnation. At the CA I attended last weekend over 80% of the non meeting replacement talks mentioned higher education in a bad light. The strong message is that those pursuing such a course are motivated by materialism, lack of faith, lack of appreciatation, misplaced priorities, egotism, self-indulgence etc. I am prepared to make a prediction now that there will be no educated JW scientists interviewed in the Awake who were brought up in the truth, went to university, never pioneered and stuck to their career.
I would love to hear from any current Elder whose child is planning on going to university or young person (especially if they are a pioneer or MS) doing the same yet finding the congregation is supportive and not challenging the course of action. If it is happening at all then I bet it will be very much a minority.
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9
Advice and Experiences, Please...
by DarioKehl ini've had a rough time lately with my jw relatives.
they are aware of my spiritually weakened condition and have known about my doubts for some time.
i would like to hear your experiences about "coming out" to your loved ones.
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konceptual99
My advice as someone currently in the same position as you is not to do it. I've spoken to several with experience of leaving and the advice from them has been consistent.
Puting things down in writing is cathartic - that's why this site, blogs, twitter etc. are used. If you want to write it down then do so here or in similar ways. Always do it anonomously. You can always just write at home and never show anyone.
Sending letters to others will always raise the apostate alarm. It is unlikely they will be really interested or read it in context. It could very easily escalate, come to the elders' attention and a JC will be formed. Do you really want that?
It's a tough place to be. I know. I am in that place too. I really just want to throw the shackles off and dump the whole thing. I want to shout it out to everyone at the hall. The reality is that if you want to keep a relationship with your family and some of your friends then the only way is slowly slowly catchy monkey.
Please don't write letters unless you are happy to run the very real risk of being thrown out and treated worse than a pedophile.
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Believers, do you believe in evolution?
by everchangingworld inafter leaving, i still couldn't wrap my head around evolution (after the years of seing "intelligent design" in everything around me).. there's a series of videos that give a good intro to evolution and critical thinking.
they've probably been posted here before, but, for any new members, these are worth watching.. evolution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdddbyilel0.
critical thinking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6olpl5p0fmg.
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konceptual99
So, if you accept that modern man has been around for tens of thousands of years, was contemporary with and shared a common ancestor with at least one other human species (Neanderthals), and has a documented line of descent reaching back millions of years then how do you also accept Genesis and all it's implications.
Man was formed in God's image.
Woman came from Man.
Their creation had a purpose.
They were perfect.
They lost perfection.
They introducted sin and death into humanity.
Their fall from grace brought into question Jehovahs's authority.
Their fall from grace necessitated the establishment of a "seed" that would rise to ransom their sin.
The kingdom
The paradise
Armageddon
....
...
If Adam and Eve are not real in the sense the WTS portray then the whole of the Bible falls down like a house of cards.
It seems to me that trying to square this circle is an exercise in futility and is basically a way of trying not to throw the baby out with the bathwater so as we don't all go nuts for having wasted our time for beleiving such a crock of junk for decades. Sorry if that sounds harsh - I completely understand why we all want to believe that God could use evolution but the only way I am maintaining my sanity is to have the courage to accept this probably is all there is.
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New Pattern regarding Science in the Awake
by konceptual99 inreading the first couple of awakes for 2013 i think there is a pattern developing.. they have the regular "could it have happened by chance" article on something amazing in nature but they are also interviewing a scientist who is also a witness.
this is a pretty interesting tack on a number of levels.. firstly it is sending out the implicit message that "look, this educated person accepts creation, the flood and every other account that is at odds with generally accepted science, so that should give you confidence that you are right as well".
secondly, as a magazine designed for public comsumption is suggests to non-witnesses that there are many well educated people who accept the bible.
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konceptual99
Reading the first couple of Awakes for 2013 I think there is a pattern developing.
They have the regular "could it have happened by chance" article on something amazing in nature but they are also interviewing a scientist who is also a Witness. This is a pretty interesting tack on a number of levels.
Firstly it is sending out the implicit message that "look, this educated person accepts creation, the flood and every other account that is at odds with generally accepted science, so that should give you confidence that you are right as well".
Secondly, as a magazine designed for public comsumption is suggests to non-witnesses that there are many well educated people who accept the Bible. This is a potentially a far stronger and more relevent message than an account about some Witness missionary preaching in a jungle or the life story of a Bethalite. Again, it is about perception and managing the message being sent.
The third point is that it also suggests that Witnesses value education to post graduate level. We all know this is absolutely not the case. The two people interviewed so far came into the truth after they had completed their studies. They chose to stick with their careers and not throw in the towel to pioneer, a choice which perhaps has brought them disapproving glances from others yet now they are useful tools to promote WTS propoganda.
Any young witness wanting to follow their course would be looked down on by the vast majority. If they attended university then they would almost certainly lose and appointment or service privilage. If their dad was a pioneer, MS or elder then they would probably lose that appointment. The WTS hates further education and to use educated people in this way is purely a PR exercise.
The final pont is that so far the featured scientists have not been directly involved in highly contentious disciplines such as anthropology, archeology, geology, evolutionary biology etc. Publish an article from a respected anthropologist who is a Witness and has solid answers for how Genesis fits with the fossil record and I will eat my hat. I would love to hear the answers these two and the future participants have to questions about the real harmony of science and Bible.
So, on the one had we have a PR exercise in interviewing these ones. On the other we have regular articles about amazing aspects of nature finished with a plea to emotion and some fuzzy logic about "chance".
Neither of these articles, that will no doubt continue to be regular features, pose any really deep questions about the fundamental disconnects between accepted science and the Biblical record. They certainly don't offer any answers. They are simply fluff and bluster, inconsequential mutterings designed to send a PR message to the outside world and offer hollow comfort to non thinking Witnesses that they are correct to treat every aspect of science with disdain except where Brother Scientist is able to wave the WT flag.