Congratulations!! What a georgeous young lady. You all look so happy...I'm happy for you! Thanks for sharing the pics, it brings me wonderful memories.
Sabine
JoinedPosts by Sabine
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18
Here's My Graduate !
by somebody inmy baby graduated from high school.
my son is in here too, with her.
in about 4 years, if things go as planned, i'll be having a big graduation party for the both of them as they both graduate from college together.
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623
Name the song from a snippet of lyric
by Simon inand no cheating by searching on the internet!.
a man my age is very young so i'm told.
why do i feel so old.
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Sabine
HEY SCULLY,
I love that S. Crow song. She's in concert up here at the Gorge, but it's the same weekend as the NW Apostafest....what to do? Someone quoted her new song earlier in this thread, "fun in the sun".
I read these lyrics in my High School English class for an oral persentation on music lyrics that moved me:
I saw cotton and I saw black,
I saw mansions, and little shacks....
I heard screamin, and bullwhips crackin
How long? How long?
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Ozzie's Weekend Poll #7
by ozziepost ini'm sorry that due to "technical difficulties', last weekend's poll did not appear, but thanks to all those who enquired about why it was not posted.
glad you're enjoying them!
so, time to put your feet up, so to speak, and have some fun with this weekend's poll.
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129
SUICIDE IN KH PARKING LOT
by Sabine inlast saturday, a former ministerial servant and pioneer committed suicide in the woodinville washington kingdom hall parking lot.
he was disfellowshipped several years ago, and according to the old sister that related the story to me today, he was depressed because no one would talk to him.
i don't know how i kept calm when she explained to me that "we couldn't talk to him...he was disfellowshipped.".
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Sabine
It's okay crawdad!! If you knew the life that poor son of a gun leads. Some fates ARE worst than death. He is just such a poor, pathetic human being. Also, he has had horrible tragedy in his own family, with one of his sons (before my daughter's death). That's whats so ironic about it, he should have been in a position, of all people, to know what it's like to have a kid you thought was doing GREAT in the truth, sink to the depths of depression and put their life in terrible danger. It's called transfering HIS horrible guilt to me, textbook case of denial.
I have genuinely let go of most of my anger on this. It's just not healthy for me, and I have a wonderful son and husband still in my life that I want to shower with all the unconditional love I can muster. I think among other things...living well is the best revenge. Every day I get to be in my house in Hawaii, on the beach, enjoying the splendid beauty there, I look up and say I love you to my daughter. I only had her for 21 years, but crawdad, many, many people have lost young children and babies. I wouldn't trade a day I got to be with her. I know how angry this makes you my friend, and I appreciate that. I think they will get what they have coming in the end...and if not, at least I have the satisfaction of knowing they weren't able to take away the joyful memories I enjoy of my daughter!!
I hope we can meet sometime ((((crawdad)))), you are some character.....takes one to know one!
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129
SUICIDE IN KH PARKING LOT
by Sabine inlast saturday, a former ministerial servant and pioneer committed suicide in the woodinville washington kingdom hall parking lot.
he was disfellowshipped several years ago, and according to the old sister that related the story to me today, he was depressed because no one would talk to him.
i don't know how i kept calm when she explained to me that "we couldn't talk to him...he was disfellowshipped.".
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Sabine
YouKnow,
I just thought you would be relieved to know the elders in my area never dropped the ball. The day after my daughter's memorial service they came promptly to visit me. For what reason? First and of upmost importance...to collect her pioneer card. And, to encourage me to get back out in service as soon as possible and not neglect my return visits. Of course since my daughter often accompanied me out in service (we were both regular pioneers), explaining her absence would be just the thing I needed at that time.
Don't go changin, YouKnow, reading your posts is a great constant reminder of how jws check their love and compassion at the door. Some jw friends that still talk to me are constantly blaming how I was treated to being in an unusually unloving area, they are sure things would have been handled differently in their congregation. You are a great example of the unity that exists.
It must be wonderful to be cloaked in the self assurance of being 100% right while others lie dying and bleeding in the gutter. No wonder you all are so looking forward to god's great day of fury, when all the weak ones will be permanently out of your way. Notice I said weak? I remember a WT article that tried to explain why god didn't put David to death after his sins of adultery and murder, but promptly put Ananias and Sapphira to death for lying about the money. It said god could judge between a weak person and an evil person...apparently there has been new light...cause all jws seem to be able to judge those that are evil as opposed to weak.
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JW's and drinking
by DanTheMan inis it just me, or is alchohol consumption at parties and vacations virtually an unwrittten rule of jw-culture?.
when i was in, i did not drink, and i still don't.
i often felt almost ostracized for this by my jw associates.
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129
SUICIDE IN KH PARKING LOT
by Sabine inlast saturday, a former ministerial servant and pioneer committed suicide in the woodinville washington kingdom hall parking lot.
he was disfellowshipped several years ago, and according to the old sister that related the story to me today, he was depressed because no one would talk to him.
i don't know how i kept calm when she explained to me that "we couldn't talk to him...he was disfellowshipped.".
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Sabine
Thank you so much for sharing your story LyinEyes, and all of you that shared your painful memories of losing someone to suicide.
Suicide is such a horrible way to lose someone, I always said if my daughter had died of cancer or in a traffic accident, it would be hard, but not as hard as having to tell people "my daughter killed herself". When people first meet me or see me with my son they always ask if I have any other children. It's painful, but I can't act like she never existed, I usually say yes I had an older daughter, then most people will ask how she died. I now feel I can honor her life by telling people what a wonderful person she was AND how blindly following a religious cult cost us her life. Heck, I spent so many years pioneering for that stinkin religion, now I put in many hours "anti-witnessing". Ha!
BTW, THANK YOU SIMON!
For providing a public forum to voice the atrocities committed by "god's spirit directed organization". I'm so glad that this young man's story was read by almost 1,000 people, hopefully he and my daughter didn't die in vain. -
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JW's and drinking
by DanTheMan inis it just me, or is alchohol consumption at parties and vacations virtually an unwrittten rule of jw-culture?.
when i was in, i did not drink, and i still don't.
i often felt almost ostracized for this by my jw associates.
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Sabine
The last congregation we attended had such a problem with under age drinking, my husband (then an elder) had to go to the legal library in downtown Seattle to research the laws on parents providing alcohol for kids in their own home, to give a special needs talk. Apparently, many jw parents thought if they let the kids drink in their own home the "kids could have fun under their supervision". I'm talking about kids as young as 14, going to a MS's house that was known to provide booze, and partying, sometimes without their parents permission. Also being so close to the Canada border, many young brothers would go there for the weekend since I think the drinking age is 18.
The last special needs talk I heard in that hall was directed to young people and their parents, it covered:
1. Oral sex is still sex.
2. Under age drinking is against Ceasar's law, not to mention gods.
3. You are not doing your kids a favor by teaching them how to lie to the elders and/or evade their questions....
Hahahaha.
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129
SUICIDE IN KH PARKING LOT
by Sabine inlast saturday, a former ministerial servant and pioneer committed suicide in the woodinville washington kingdom hall parking lot.
he was disfellowshipped several years ago, and according to the old sister that related the story to me today, he was depressed because no one would talk to him.
i don't know how i kept calm when she explained to me that "we couldn't talk to him...he was disfellowshipped.".
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Sabine
My son's friend spent the night with us last night, it turns out he found the body. Poor kid, how gruesome, the body was found early in the morning last Saturday, he was putting out the trash because he forgot the night before. A paper boy called to him from across the street in the KH parking lot. The body was partially decapitated, in a pool of blood. They called 911, I imagine it must have been quite a sight for those meeting for service that morning. I am very concerned about my son's friend, seeing that could cause anyone to have post traumatic distress. I'm talking to his parents about it this afternoon.
I agree it would be great if the sister received cards from us, without anti-jw statements, just expressing our deep sympathy. I know after our daughter died, we were in such shock, it literally took us two years to sort out what happened, and after going to suicide counseling, and speaking with an impartial third party, to realize the big part the religion had in her death.
It is just your first instinct to totally blame yourself when a child takes their own life. And after 35 years of indoctrination, it was so scarey to admit it was her belief that she sinned against Jehovah and would be put out of his organization that lead her to do it. Her suicide letter was so clear about that, but it still took us a long time to stop blaming ourselves and really read what her letter said. When people ask me how I have been able to handle it, I say that her leaving us the letter saved us from going totally crazy with guilt and grief. She stated how much she loved us, what great parents we were, not to blame ourselves. But the letter was full of statements like "I have been lying to you, Satan is the father of the lie, so I deserve to be destroyed by Jah, I don't deserve to have your love, I'm a horrible sinner", etc.
We let the elders read her letter, and yet, in order to shift the blame to us, they said we were to blame for her death, we were too strict as parents, it was just pure slander. I don't know how they sleep at night knowing they came to our house while we were out of town, talked to her alone about her relationship with an unbaptized brother, and threatened to remove her as a pioneer and disfellowship her...then the next day she commited suicide in her car in our garage. But somehow it was our fault. It still amazes me how quickly everyone turned on us once we started questioning the elder's part in her death, and the tremendous pressure to lead a double life like most of the other young people in this area. I was very side tracked by the fact that so many parents new what their kids where doing, and many times lied for them and tried to shield them from the elders. Of course now that's just a moot point, they were just reacting to a ridiculous religion full of unrealistic, unnecessary rules and control. But we made a lot of parents feel very guilty, and that's when their compassion for us ended.
It's worth it to me to drudge up these painful feelings if someone lurking out there reads this and it moves them to seriously research their beliefs and the organization's history of legalism and control. What does unconditional love really mean???
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SUICIDE IN KH PARKING LOT
by Sabine inlast saturday, a former ministerial servant and pioneer committed suicide in the woodinville washington kingdom hall parking lot.
he was disfellowshipped several years ago, and according to the old sister that related the story to me today, he was depressed because no one would talk to him.
i don't know how i kept calm when she explained to me that "we couldn't talk to him...he was disfellowshipped.".
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Sabine
Thank you all for the loving support and compassion.
I am just in shock, I've been out of town and my son just related this story to me yesterday. I searched the local paper on-line, and the Seattle Times but found nothing written about it. But then my daughter's death wasn't in any of the local papers either, I remember feeling relieved about that at the time. Suicide carries such social stigma and shame, I think the media stays away from reporting on it unless it's a famous person, to give some privacy to the surviving family members.
My dilema now is that I want to speak to this man's mother. I did know her very well. She was a regular in my car group when I was a pioneer. She is one of those quiet, meek older sisters that none of the young hip pioneer cliques wanted in their group. I have so much I can share with her, but as you all know, it wouldn't be considered "uplifting, christian encouragement". I don't think she needs to lose her whole belief system right now too. I just need to calm down and in a few days when I'm now so angry maybe then I can just go by as a fellow suicide survivor and leave the borg. out of if for now.