I enjoyed I'm o'k You're ok and The Games People Play by Eric Byrne. Well worth a read. They are neo-Freudian but I think Freud did great work on the unconscious mind even they I lean towards Jung because I think he had a more open mind.
Xanthippe
JoinedPosts by Xanthippe
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Transactional Analysis
by frankiespeakin infor those who like this type of thing:.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/transactional_analysis.
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Not Sure What I Believe In Anymore
by nuthouse escapee ininside my head is a tangled ball of wool when it comes to what i believe.
i have days where i believe in a creator and other days when i don't.
then there are times when i refer to this as believing in 'something' but what exactly this something is, i have no idea.
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Xanthippe
I agree with Black Sheep. When I first left I would read another book and change my mind again. What's wrong with that? I hope I can still do that or surely I am totally closed-minded? Take your time. It can be exhausting and stressful. If you feel like reading think of the things you are interested in and read about those first.
I did go from JW to Christian to agnostic and then to atheist over quite a few years. But it isn't true that all atheists believe in 'nothing'. I accept evolution but I think there is a huge amount of evidence for life after death. There are many things we still cant explain but I'm ok with that, I'll just keep reading. Take care of yourself and take it slowly.
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Do they think we are going to say I told you so?
by Xanthippe inapart from the obvious reasons of being afraid of dying at armageddon, being afraid of losing their jw family by being shunned, i wonder what people think of why those who know the organization has become so corrupt don't leave.. do you think that some feel that they would rather get old and die in that religion than come out and have to admit to their family who are already out that they were wrong?
do they think that we are going to say - i told you so?.
i'm wondering because there is just so little compassion in that religion now so do they think we would have no compassion for them if they left?
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Xanthippe
Yes I have to say Phizzy after reading some of the posts on here for the last month I am beginning to see that the doublethink that some choose to believe is entrenched. Like those of my family who have been in for decades.
My brother and sister, still in the JWs, can't have children. When I left, IVF was totally wrong because some embryos are always discarded and this was viewed as murder. Now this rubbish about donor IVF being adultery! I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that. Now though, if my siblings were still young enough and didn't need donors apparently it is a matter of conscience! But they are too old now, that ship has sailed. New light, what shite! Yet still they keep trotting along to meetings!
This is not just academic to my family, not just another Watchtower article. The WTS views have taken away any possibility of my brother and sister and their partners having children. This has caused them terrible emotional pain. They have to bury their heads deeper and deeper in the sand to block out the pain of what waiting for that 'bus that will never arrive' has done to their lives. No wonder they don't want to acknowledge the existence of my daughter, their niece and they act as though she has never been born.
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As A Jehovah's Witness Did You Never Accept Or Believe Something They Taught?
by minimus ini never believed that in 1975 or by the end of the 20th century, we would see the great tribulation occur.
some witnesses would listen to fred franz' talks where he clearly told his audience that 1975 was the end of 6000 years and the beginning of the jubilee....or something like that.. was there something that you never truly accepted that you were supposed to believe as a jehovah's witness?.
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Xanthippe
Male headship! Couldn't understand why Jehovah would do that to women when some men in the congregation were such $h!t$. I hoped that in the new system Jehovah would explain it to me. LOL! It was Desmond Morris that explained to me why some men treat women so badly in The Naked Ape.
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Do they think we are going to say I told you so?
by Xanthippe inapart from the obvious reasons of being afraid of dying at armageddon, being afraid of losing their jw family by being shunned, i wonder what people think of why those who know the organization has become so corrupt don't leave.. do you think that some feel that they would rather get old and die in that religion than come out and have to admit to their family who are already out that they were wrong?
do they think that we are going to say - i told you so?.
i'm wondering because there is just so little compassion in that religion now so do they think we would have no compassion for them if they left?
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Xanthippe
irondork: I agree there is a real possibility of me putting a lot of emotional energy in to it and not getting a single reply. Every family is different but I think I know mine pretty well. I like your thoughts about alcoholism. Some ways of life are addictive too, even when we know they are hurting us. Thanks, I will give it some more thought.
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Do they think we are going to say I told you so?
by Xanthippe inapart from the obvious reasons of being afraid of dying at armageddon, being afraid of losing their jw family by being shunned, i wonder what people think of why those who know the organization has become so corrupt don't leave.. do you think that some feel that they would rather get old and die in that religion than come out and have to admit to their family who are already out that they were wrong?
do they think that we are going to say - i told you so?.
i'm wondering because there is just so little compassion in that religion now so do they think we would have no compassion for them if they left?
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Xanthippe
Irondork - I found your comment really interesting. They do talk endlessly about vindicating Jehovah's name don't they and now I see that they want to be vindicated desperately! They have been treated as fools by the 'world' for years and as you say Lost Generation, they want to say we told you so to the whole world. Rather sad really to want to say, we told you so, it's time for you to be destroyed by God!
Blondie, so if the Devil they know is preferable because we are the unknown factor, how can we let them know who we are now and offer non-judgemental support and talk about the joy in our lives as you say, King Solomon, if they shun us like my family do? I only see my family at funerals.
So I have been thinking for a few days after reading your comments and I want to ask, do you think it is a good idea to write to family or friends and let them know about our lives now and that we are non-judgemental about their life choices?
Something to the effect of 'I respect your choices (or we could say we respect their right to choose if we couldn't manage that!) Also that we are always here if they ever change their minds about us and want to contact us.
Have you tried anything like that? If so, what happened?
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Xanthippe
Flipper and Rip VanWinkle:
Thanks for answering my question about the two versions of the Watchtower. When I left the org. twenty odd years ago there was only one version of the Watchtower every two weeks. The one we read was the identical one we took out in field service. I was absolutely amazed to read this.
It hit me in the eye because it is classic cult behavior to only let the initiated know the full rules and regulations and lean on them to keep all these do'es and don'ts while keeping them secret from those showing an interest until they are emotionally committed.
Ten minutes on the internet reading accounts of people who have got away from Scientology or the Moonies will tell you that. It just made me want to yell at my family and friends still in the JW's 'What does it take people? What does this cult have to do to you to make you realise?'
Thanks for this thread, Flipper, it has made me wonder what else has changed that I just have no clue about and probably can't even imagine happening! I'll watch this space!
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Xanthippe
Flipper great post. Do they really have two versions of the Watchtower ? One for the cong and one for field service? Sorry are you being literal or are you talking about the way it is put accross in the watchtower study? I've been out a long time and had no contact at all until I looked at this site a few weeks ago.
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Do they think we are going to say I told you so?
by Xanthippe inapart from the obvious reasons of being afraid of dying at armageddon, being afraid of losing their jw family by being shunned, i wonder what people think of why those who know the organization has become so corrupt don't leave.. do you think that some feel that they would rather get old and die in that religion than come out and have to admit to their family who are already out that they were wrong?
do they think that we are going to say - i told you so?.
i'm wondering because there is just so little compassion in that religion now so do they think we would have no compassion for them if they left?
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Xanthippe
Apart from the obvious reasons of being afraid of dying at Armageddon, being afraid of losing their JW family by being shunned, I wonder what people think of why those who know the organization has become so corrupt don't leave.
Do you think that some feel that they would rather get old and die in that religion than come out and have to admit to their family who are already out that they were wrong? Do they think that we are going to say - I told you so?
I'm wondering because there is just so little compassion in that religion now so do they think we would have no compassion for them if they left? Have they been conditioned to think there really aren't any caring people anywhere, so why not just stay where they are for family and perhaps social reasons - like any other church?
How can we get it through to them that if they left we would be overjoyed for their own sake, so that they can be free and really start living? We would use all of our experience of building a life outside of the Watchtower organization to help and support them. I wonder if they don't think that is possible after they have shunned us, some of us for decades?
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Even after reading Crisis of Conscience, one thing (at least) still puzzled me
by kepler init was several years back and from time to time i will look something up in the index.
all manner of things about jw life are revealed - as well as discussions within the leadership, plus historical and contemporary controversies - but there is still something i missed.. please excuse me if this is not a detailed summary.
when the drum roll starts for the purge, it appears that the friends and associates of ray franz are targeted first.
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Xanthippe
Kepler you mentioned, 'Interspersed in the narrative are accounts of things like the difficulty of constructing a case for 607 BC'. Now it is over 20 years since I read Crisis of Conscience so I may be mis-remembering it, but I thought that this was how it all started.
Wasn't Ray Franz on the writing committee for the Aid Book when during his indepth research he realised that 607 was wrong and hence 1914 must be wrong? Wasn't that what rocked him to begin with? I am sure that other people have read it more recently and can tell me.
I think it is a very good point you make that people think Ray Franz wrote an apostate book and then got disfellowshipped for it when he actually got thrown out because he ate a meal with an old friend who was disfellowshipped. This was after revealing his Aid Book research to the Governing Body and their decision to hush it up.