krejames

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Posts by krejames

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  56

  Rutherford's love letter to Hitler

  by irondork in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  has anyone ever thought to send a copy of rutherford's letter to hitler & declaration of facts to the holocaust museum in washington, d.c.?

  they have and entire section dedicated to the jehovah's witness in that museum.

  i would hate for tourists to visit the museum and not get the whole story.. i would also assume there are jw displays at other holocaust museums around the world.

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  krejames

  Rutherford's letter to Hitler was the most recent stumbling block to me. I was shocked when I read it on the JW Facts site recently. I wondered how JWs could point the finger at the Catholic Church for cosying up to Hitler when they had written this apparently anti-semitic and pro-nazi letter. However, I want my journey from the borg to be based on facts and not sensationalism or hearsay, so I have been doing my own research on this, this evening. A key matter for me was to find out if Jewish people considered JWs anti-semitic, having known about the letter and the Declaration...

  The answer is "no". The Jewish Virtual Library (www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org) has a section on Jehovah's Witnesses. It is a wholly positive article. It says "initially, Jehovah's Witnesses attempted to fend off Nazi attacks by issuing a letter to the government in October 1934..." They make no suggestion that JWs were pro Nazi or anti-semitic.

  The Wikipedia article on the Jw Declaration of Facts quotes a couple of secular historians (1) Detlef Garbe. He acknowledged the witnesses were trying to make a good impression on the German Government but said that, in repudiating accusations that the witnesses had received financial support from the Jews, the religion clearly distanced itself from another group under persecution (I'm wondering whether that's referring ot the Christadelphians). He noted the use of anti-jewish slogans in the document....but said the Witnesses were not guilty of anti-semitism. Yet Garbe said that the Declaration's description of the Anglo-American empire as the "most oppressive empire on earth" did undermine the religion's claims to political neutrality. He also said later publications misrepresented the Delcaration as a "resolution of protest" and criticised the society's attempts to blame the German Branch leader for "the society's attempt to adapt".

  It's interesting that the historian no.2, James Penton is the only one who scathingly accuses the JWs of being anti-semitic and he was an ex-jehovah's witness. So, like many of us on this discussion board, hardly unbiased.

  I guess in light of the above and seen in context of the times, as elaborated on by Detlef Garbe, it's difficult to remain quite as shocked as I was initially. Sorry if this seems rather apologetic but this has taken the heat and shock value out of the argument for me. But nevertheless it's unsavoury that the GB has been less than candid about its past once again.
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  106

  What REALLY Convinced You To Leave/Lose Faith in JWs?

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  id like to know what personally convinced you jws are wrong about a particular doctrine/practice, that they are not gods true.people and/or what made you leave emotionally/physically.

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  krejames

  Oh and I forgot to metnion, more recently, Rutherford's letter to Hitler made my blood run cold and made me realise the JWs had absolutely no grounds to point the finger at the Catholic Church...
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  106

  What REALLY Convinced You To Leave/Lose Faith in JWs?

  by Recovery in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  id like to know what personally convinced you jws are wrong about a particular doctrine/practice, that they are not gods true.people and/or what made you leave emotionally/physically.

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  krejames

  I guess I can't say I have left the org yet, though I have left mentally. Like others that have posted the process for me is the "pack of cards" effect (I'm still on my journey).

  1. The first thing was accepting that I had been born into the "truth" and was gay, then realising that everything I had read in the literature about homosexuality was, basically, crap. No support for gay "born ins". Most literature experiences related to promiscuous, drug-addicted cross dressers who came into the truth and then were "cured" (i.e. got married and had umpteen kids). I knew from my research that there is not one documented example of scientific proof that anyone has been abole to change from being homosexual to heterosexual - even if they had managed to change their behaviour. Even though the org's attitude softened somewhat more recently (and has now apparently toughened again), I realised that any acknowledgment by the GB that there were gay people being born in the truth, who hadn't chosen a "lifestyle" etc was either never going to happen or is a long way off.

  2. It took a long time for the implications of the above to sink in. Once it did, I realised if the printed material about "gays" was wrong, what else was wrong?

  3. The idea of "shunning" disfellowshipped ones was completely alien to everything I felt morally. Despite the fact I thought the Bible supported it (now I know that's not necessarily the case), I couldn't get my head or my heart around it. Also two of my closest friends fell away from the truth (not difellowshipped) and suddenly everything they did in their lives (one got married to a non-JW and now has three lovely kids) was spoken of by JWs with an edge of suspicion and judgement. I couldn't "not" keep in touch with them. They were my friends whether they were "in the truth" or not.

  4. Despite on the whole having no personal issues or conflicts with elders or others, I had long felt that the normal every day "busy-bodying" just isn't christian. The group of friends I was (am) left with in the "truth", despite being lovely in most ways, talk about their friends' and even their family's welfare in terms of whether they go out on the field service or get to every meeting. This really really annoys me. If I ask after someone I am not asking for a report on their "spirituality". I couldn't careless about that - it's none of my business. I just want to know if they are in good health and happy.

  5. Ray Franz's Crisis of Conscience confirmed to me what I already knew (see 1 and 2 above). I had come across the redefining of "fornication" in the 70s from my research into homosexuality in the literature, but the experience of the woman from South Africa who was disfellowshipped for re-marrying after divorcing her first husband even though he had had anal sex with a woman (which wasn't considered fornication at the time)....How could Jesus be directing this kinds of ridiculousness?

  6. The failed predictions hadn't really been an issue for me - I had always swallowed the org's blurb on that (the "some witnesses were over enthusiastic" argument). But it was the GB's attitude to reporting this stuff - blaming the rank and file witnesses for believing it - that really gets to me.

  7. Researching the "cross". While I totally accepted that veneration of the cross is wrong and unscriptural, I realised there were absolutely no grounds to be dogmatic that Jesus died on a stake and not a cross. Basically no one can be absolutely sure either way.

  8. Realising that much of the "evidence" in the Reasoning book about the Last Days is quoted out of context or completely made up. For instance there is no evidence that the number or seriousness of earthquakes have increased since 1914. I was brought up to belive that the numbe in the last days outnumbered all earthquakes in precending history. This is simply not true.

  That's just for starters...
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  68

  Cedars...I took you up on the song challenge....

  by diana netherton in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  billions and billions of corpses,.

  each one deserved to die.. billions there are on billions, .

  billions and billions of dead ones,.

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  krejames

  I'm listening to it right now...it sounds the same to me...

  Yes! Sorry you're right - I was getting mixed up with From House to House. That used to be a happy little number, now the tune makes it a bit depressing - (at least more realistic though, I guess).
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  68

  Cedars...I took you up on the song challenge....

  by diana netherton in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  billions and billions of corpses,.

  each one deserved to die.. billions there are on billions, .

  billions and billions of dead ones,.

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  krejames

  Of course it's set to the old melody. Silly organizational rules to scrap perfectly good old melodies don't apply here on JWN!!

  Glad to hear it! It's...erm...sacriledge how some of those lovely songs have been tampered with. song abuse! Maybe I'll to Diana's words next time the song comes up at the meeting. i'll let you know how long it take for me to be ejected from the hall
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  68

  Cedars...I took you up on the song challenge....

  by diana netherton in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  billions and billions of corpses,.

  each one deserved to die.. billions there are on billions, .

  billions and billions of dead ones,.

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  krejames

  Great stuff. I hope it's set to the original melody and not the crappy new one in the latest song book
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  51

  What's The Worst Thing About Being A Jehovah's Witness?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for me, i think it's that the witnesses teach they are god's spokesman.

  they represent his "faithful & discreet slave"....and that they alone are expounders of the only truth and that if you disagree with anything they teach, you are considered worse than vomit.. it's unbelievable because these people are wrong so many times, it cannot be excused!.

  as a witness, you must accept every viewpoint and if you (and your family) do not accept it all, hook, line and sinker, you are "apostates"!!!.

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  krejames

  Hehe funny thread....apart from praying before mealtimes, and I mean PRAYING! Why would brothers feel the need to give five minute sermons before a meal, while it gets cold? I used to say to people (and still do) "where in Bible does it say Jesus "prayed" before eating?" "Gave thanks": yes "blessed" the food: yes...but Prayed?? I used to give the shortest prayers ever when asked...so obviously I was very spiritually weak.

  So where was I? I got side tracked on to my hobby horse... the worst thing, as has already been said, I have to agree was the constant guilt that influenced everything about life.
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  15

  Message from a JW. Does this sound Christian?

  by TimothyT in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  sent a message to a very good jw friend who must be about 20 now.

  here is the message:.

  "hiya.

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  krejames

  Timmy - your post made me feel sad. But I have to agree with King Solomon - this is to be expected. From his point of view you are "spiritually dead". It may have been difficult for him to respond to you in such a harsh way - maybe he thinks it's "tough love". He thinks he's doing you good by shunning you to "bring you to your senses" so that you'll realise what a wonderful closetted, depressing life you had with your "brothers and sisters" and want to return. It makes my blood run cold.
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  20

  untitled

  by iknowall558 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  im an ex jw, out 3yrs after spending 24yrs of my life in the organisation.

  i spend most of my time on fb exposing the org and having conversations with active jws.

  i have recently agree to a 'bible study' with a woman, a grandmother, who is a regular pioneer and has only been a jw for 5yrs.

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  krejames

  Yes I remember that article. I remember thinking how the implication was despicable.
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  36

  Evidence For Impending Change Re: "Loose Conduct" to "Brazen Conduct"

  by DarioKehl in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  on another thread discussing possible changes to the nwt, the post refered to a 2nd-hand report of a co leaking possible changes to 5 verses where "loose conduct" would be replaced by "brazen conduct.

  " although it is merely speculative at this point, i would like to remind those of you who did attend the 2012 dc this summer about some important evidence that supports this theory.

  if the program is still available on jw.org, feel free to see this for yourselves.

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  krejames

  FIVE TIMES? You either need to get rid of that guilty conscience thing, or close the damn door/curtains when you're doing whatever you're doing.

  Well yes, you're right. All of them as a result of me confessing - so it was definitely guilty conscience. Those days are gone. Sometime after the last one, when they told me I could comment at the meetings again, I said I wouldn't be (it has always bugged me how you're told you can't comment and then suddenly you're told you MUST answer up! And I told them that). They questioned me for quite some time to see if it was because of apostate ideas. But you're right,the JCs themselves were not for apostasy. I'll probably get around to telling the whole story on a separate thread, the only thing that holds me back from doing that is that it might be a bit boring because it's probably all been said before!