Posts by Salud

10

Does Disfellowshipping violate the Constitution?

by YoursChelbie in

maybe this is just my observation but.... with the exception of crimal offenses, is not disfellowshiping by the wts unconstitutional?

at the very least they violate the right to freedom of speech.

(i know about the separation of church and state...).

Salud

Spaznik,

You make valid points. In fact my wife and I were discussing these very ideas today. We were wondering about our situation as disfellowshipped members. Sometime ago we spoke to one of the attorney's handling Erika's (Dateline) case. His words to us were that we would not win even though our complaints were legitimate. If it would have been a corporation or any other organizaiton besides a religious one we would have had a case. But since it falls into that untouchable universe of religion we are out of luck. It all has to do with religion and the rights they have toward their members. It figures that if you voluntarily join a religion then you adhere to all it's by-laws.

What goverments fail to realize is that once a person is in a religious organization it does not have to follow the same by-laws by which you agreed to when you first joined. They can at will change their rules and teaching on issues and you as a person have no rights. Take for example the baptism questions, when I got baptized in the early 70's you dedicated your life to Jehovah and Jesus, plain and simple. Since the early 80's the wording of the baptismal questions at the assemblies have changed to include your dedication to the Organization now. So what I once thought was true as to my dedication has now taken a new life of its own where I do not have any say so, and pity me if I speak up for I may be disfellowshipped.

I feel that maybe in the future this tide may turn, especially with the pedophile issue that has been raised. But at the present the courts will not touch this, especially in light of terrorist problems and how many people right now look to religion for the anwsers.

I hope that one day this government will see that the constitution was written for individuals and not religious organizations. Unfortunately our rights as indivdual were and will continue to be violated by these.

Edited by - salud on 27 June 2002 19:36:34

14

Answers about Witnessess & Non-Witnessess

by Overseer in

i, myself are not a witness, i am 18, male and live in england.. six months ago i met a 17 year old jehovah's witness, became very attached to her and grew to love her.

her mother does not approve of the relationship at all and has resorted to threats to throw her out, grounding her, ignoring her, contacting elders, unless she discontinues seeing me.

first question: if her not seeing me makes her very unhappy and her seeing me makes her very happy-why is it wrong that we stay together?

Salud

Overseer,

First I agree with Dungbeetle and forget about her for the time being. She will not get disfellowshipped for seeing you or marrying you for that matter, but she can be put under public reproof where priviledges such as commenting and having parts in the Ministry School might be taken away. Is she ready to deal with that?

Also she is only 17. Let me say that a 17 year old does not know what she wants. She might say she loves you but she is also torn between you and trying to please her family and her religion. Until she is determined in her mind to make a solid decision towards the relationship it is only going to be filled with anguish and frustration. Right now she is too young as well as yourself to have to deal with such issues. Leave it alone and move on and chalk it up as a learning experience. Trust me, I have seen this tooooo many times before.

7

JWs and College Goals in the News

by blondie in

pharo tribune, logansport, in.

lhs produces 9 valedictorians, 2 salutatorians for 2002 .

publication date:.

Salud

Well if she sticks to her plans I say good for her! She is bucking the trend.

My younger brother was offered a sholorship out of high school but instead decided to pioneer and go to Bethel (I am partly to blame for that) Now I wish he would have not listened to me.

95

Top STUPID criticisms of the WTS

by JanH in

jw
friends

there are certainly enough valid criticisms of the wts and the jw religion, but a significant number of often-repeated criticisms of the religion are, imnsho, just ludicruous and serves to take attention away from the real issues.

significant problems with the wts includes, but are not limited to, the shunning policy, the blood issue and of course the corporate policy of hiding child molestors.. here is a list of criticisms of the wts that i find particularly annoying to see:.

russell was a freemason (or, even worse, the wts is part of some other large-scale conspiracy like the illuminati).

Salud

Interesting thread. Many good points.

Hate having to scroll to the right to read though, temp. solution:

I have been copying and pasting everyone's comments on a Word document

makes for easier reading.

8

When the jw's win, we all win

by terafera in

jw
friends

a jw sister sent me this.... said this showed how jw's help all americans:

subject: why jehovah's witnesses' victory is a win for all of us.

date: tue, 25 jun 2002 14:25:50 -0400. .

Salud

I do not feel that the Supreme Court decision to allow Witnesses to freely go door to door was a win for the Watchtower. They just happened to be the tool that was used for allowing this freedom for all. The fact that the WT was involved is that the door to door work is an essential part of their doctrine. This is just another freedom that this country allows, unlike many other countries.

I was hoping that the Supreme Court rule in their favor, because I sure do not want to have the governments permission before I can speak to my neighbor. This country allows freedom for all, including JW's whether we agree with their doctrine or not. That is the wonderful thing about living here.

I know many JW's are going to say how God's spirit is blessing them here. Of course they will hail this as another major victory that they take credit for. But whether it was JW's, Mormons, or the Avon lady, the Supreme Court would have ruled the same way.

44

A Mike Myers moment...

by jaccilynn in

late last night, i made a grilled cheese sandwhich and stuck "wayne's world" in the vcr.

i've seen it dozens of times, but it never stops being funny!

and i thought about how clever mike meyers is to come up with such a great character like wayne campbell... then i thought about austin powers and the fact that part three is coming out soon!

Salud

The movie 'I Married an Axe Murderer' is my favorite M. Myers movie. One time we rented and invited a bunch of people over just to watch the skit where the father is putting down his son for having a big head, (it has its own weather station) it was hillarious!!

52

65 QUESTIONS---FIRST 10 ANSWERS

by You Know in

with that in mind, then, we can better appreciate what jesus was referring to when he spoke about the temple of his body.

thats because they are persons, whereas the holy spirit is a force that is merely frequently referred to as if it were a person.

5. the wts claims that ezekial's prophecy of the jews returning to their land is fulfilled in their organization.

Salud

You Know

What HS is simply asking is to objectively look at other viewpoints. Not only were many here like myself raised on the WT doctrine but we fervently taught it to others. Several years ago you could not tell me that there might even be the slightest possibility that there might be something different. I don't feel that way anymore.

I too have examined other doctrines and interpretations. I tend to lean toward the Preterist viewpoint for the fact it makes more sense and it is easier to explain the Bible. I am not saying this is the doctrine of choice as I am still learning, but that is what it's all about.

Be honest, how do you justify the 144K being a literel number when the equation used to get to that number in Rev. ch. 7 is symolic (12 symbolic tribes X 12,000 symbolic israelites) = 144,000 literal. Come on now. I know for a fact many JW's incl. elders have a hard time with this. Toward the end I personally never felt comfortable giving public talks on this subject esp. since I did not feel comfortable explaining it. I am not alone in this regard, many of your collegues feel the same way. Don't be surprised if later the Society changes this interpretation as well.

52

65 QUESTIONS---FIRST 10 ANSWERS

by You Know in

with that in mind, then, we can better appreciate what jesus was referring to when he spoke about the temple of his body.

thats because they are persons, whereas the holy spirit is a force that is merely frequently referred to as if it were a person.

5. the wts claims that ezekial's prophecy of the jews returning to their land is fulfilled in their organization.

Salud

You Know,

Remember also what Col. 1:23 states when Paul said "that good news which you heard, and which was preached in all creation under heaven", did he actually mean the entire inhabited earth as it was known back then? Well of course not, and the Society will back me up on this. Hence when Jesus was speaking of the good news being preached back then it was fulfilled with those words of Paul. They were preparing for the destruction of Jerusalem, nothing more, nothing less.

Also, like HS mentioned, there is much discussion now centering on the book of Revelation and how it was written well before the destruction of Jerusalem. You should read other material besides Society's publications. Why if you come to this board to post, you wouldn't be doing anything worse than just educating yourself with other material and references. What are you afraid of? Don't let knowledge scare you away.

10

Pleese Wotch Yoor Spellin

by hillary_step in

.

Salud

think41self,

That was very funny. Saturday nite live had some classics...