Rivergang

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Posts by Rivergang

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  112

  Afghanistan-Kabul falls to Taliban - U.S. Embassy staff evacuated by helicopter

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a scene reminiscent of the fall of saigon, the usa embassy staff have been evacuated by helicopter.. for a third time in asia ( a fourth, if you count usa supported chiang kai shek's defeat in mainland china) usa supported forces have been defeated.

  more than 1 trillion dollars wasted and a huge deathtoll (both sides) afghanistan is back to where it started,.

  will the taliban behave differently this time ?

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  Rivergang

  All the Taliban did was just wait till the American went home. They hardly even engaged western forces, so I wouldn't say it was a military defeat.

  Classic guerrilla warfare tactics

  • When your enemy attacks, you retreat.
  • When your enemy reaches the limit of his advance, you begin harassing him (using snipers, roadside bombs, booby traps and similar measures).
  • When your enemy retreats, then you attack.

  The whole idea is to make it a "protracted campaign", so that your enemy (particularly if it is a Western power) eventually loses the stomach for the fight. Every power that has attempted to occupy Afghanistan has learned this - usually the hard way!

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  112

  Afghanistan-Kabul falls to Taliban - U.S. Embassy staff evacuated by helicopter

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a scene reminiscent of the fall of saigon, the usa embassy staff have been evacuated by helicopter.. for a third time in asia ( a fourth, if you count usa supported chiang kai shek's defeat in mainland china) usa supported forces have been defeated.

  more than 1 trillion dollars wasted and a huge deathtoll (both sides) afghanistan is back to where it started,.

  will the taliban behave differently this time ?

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  Rivergang

  Without our military presence you and the rest of your European cohorts would be speaking german.

  It was an Allied effort that defeated Nazi Germany.

  • Britain keeping the fight going for 12 months, during which it stood all alone (up until when Hitler made the mistake of attacking the Soviet Union).
  • The various resistance groups in occupied Europe (such as the Norwegian one, which destroyed the German's heavy water plant, and thus stopped Hitler from developing a nuclear weapon).
  • The much-maligned Soviet Union. Germany's back was broken on the Eastern Front, while the Western Allies mounted a largely ineffective strategic bombing campaign on the German war effort. (Despite an intensifying aerial bombardment on German industry between 1942 and 1944, its war production - tanks, submarines, aircraft, small arms, ammunition etc - just kept on increasing. Thanks largely to the genius of the Nazi's Minister of War Production, Albert Speer, German industry effectively thumbed its nose at the Allied strategic bombing campaign). By the time the Western Allies opened the "Second Front" in June of 1944, the Wermacht was already well and truly on the run in the East.

  • And, of course, the USA. Fair to say that once the American industrial system got fully geared for war production, that put the seal on things.

  However, it must be stressed that it took an allied effort to defeat Hitler. The USA did not win the war all on its own, as you were trying to suggest.

  
  
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  112

  Afghanistan-Kabul falls to Taliban - U.S. Embassy staff evacuated by helicopter

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a scene reminiscent of the fall of saigon, the usa embassy staff have been evacuated by helicopter.. for a third time in asia ( a fourth, if you count usa supported chiang kai shek's defeat in mainland china) usa supported forces have been defeated.

  more than 1 trillion dollars wasted and a huge deathtoll (both sides) afghanistan is back to where it started,.

  will the taliban behave differently this time ?

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  Rivergang

  Anon,

  With all due respect, you do need to check your history, starting with Pol Pot. He was nothing to do with Vietnam; he was the leader of the communist faction (known as the "Khmer Rouge") in a neighbouring country, Cambodia. Early in 1975, the Khmer Rouge completed their overthrow of the pro-Western government of Marshal Lon Nol, when they captured the capital city, Phnom Penh.

  Secondly, it was Richard Nixon who pulled US combat troops out of Vietnam. (Although, it must be said, after the Tet Offensive of February 1968, nobody had any further thoughts about winning the war - only about how America could best extricate itself from the debacle).

  Nixon and his Secretary of State, Henry Kissinger, coined the term "Vietnamisation" of the war, in which - similar to Afghanistan - the local military were to progressively take over the fight. I can remember it like it was yesterday when the first US troop withdrawals took place during the latter part of 1969, and all the fanfare that was made of that event.

  1969 was the first year of Nixon's presidency - and it was he that initiated the withdrawal of US combat troops, not LBJ.
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  34

  “Well at least he doesn’t make mean tweets”

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i asked a tennis friend this morning what he thought about what’s going on in afghanistan and he said it was terrible.

  he was a military man and identifies as a middle of the road republican.

  he supported most of trump’s policies but voted for biden because he couldn’t take trump’s mean tweets.

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  Rivergang

  Rocketman123,

  Yet another example of a US-backed military force, superbly equipped, but lacking the will to fight.
• 
  112

  Afghanistan-Kabul falls to Taliban - U.S. Embassy staff evacuated by helicopter

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a scene reminiscent of the fall of saigon, the usa embassy staff have been evacuated by helicopter.. for a third time in asia ( a fourth, if you count usa supported chiang kai shek's defeat in mainland china) usa supported forces have been defeated.

  more than 1 trillion dollars wasted and a huge deathtoll (both sides) afghanistan is back to where it started,.

  will the taliban behave differently this time ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Rivergang

  Rocketman123,

  Another case of a US-backed military force, superbly equipped - BUT without the will to fight.
• 
  112

  Afghanistan-Kabul falls to Taliban - U.S. Embassy staff evacuated by helicopter

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a scene reminiscent of the fall of saigon, the usa embassy staff have been evacuated by helicopter.. for a third time in asia ( a fourth, if you count usa supported chiang kai shek's defeat in mainland china) usa supported forces have been defeated.

  more than 1 trillion dollars wasted and a huge deathtoll (both sides) afghanistan is back to where it started,.

  will the taliban behave differently this time ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Rivergang

  but the Japanese showed how soft your people are

  I am intrigued, here!

  Who exactly are you referring to when you say "your people"?

  
  
• 
  112

  Afghanistan-Kabul falls to Taliban - U.S. Embassy staff evacuated by helicopter

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a scene reminiscent of the fall of saigon, the usa embassy staff have been evacuated by helicopter.. for a third time in asia ( a fourth, if you count usa supported chiang kai shek's defeat in mainland china) usa supported forces have been defeated.

  more than 1 trillion dollars wasted and a huge deathtoll (both sides) afghanistan is back to where it started,.

  will the taliban behave differently this time ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Rivergang

  South Vietnam revisited!

  FTS, in three of those cases you mention (i.e. Afghanistan, South Vietnam and China), US-backed forces were certainly given the capability to resist. What they lost - or perhaps never had in the first place - was the will to fight.

  To quote the observations of a recognised military genius, Napoleon Bonaparte:

  "In war, moral power is to the physical as three parts out of four."

  The real challenge, it would seem, is not in throwing money, materiel and manpower at the problem - it is in somehow inspiring people to fight; a much more subtle challenge.
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  34

  “Well at least he doesn’t make mean tweets”

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i asked a tennis friend this morning what he thought about what’s going on in afghanistan and he said it was terrible.

  he was a military man and identifies as a middle of the road republican.

  he supported most of trump’s policies but voted for biden because he couldn’t take trump’s mean tweets.

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  Rivergang

  no one has a good record involving themselves in Afgan business, period!!!

  When that involvement takes the form of a military "solution", this is all too true!

  During their time in India, the British certainly learned that the hard way.

  Even after a rare bit of military success in the Second Afghan War - achieved when Lord Roberts force-marched a 9,000 man relief column from Kabul to lift the siege of Kandahar and to then subsequently rout a rebel army - they soon completely withdrew. Thereafter, Britain used more subtle means to advance its interests in Afghanistan.

  For a detailed account of these matters, the following link provides an informative read.
  

  LORD ROBERTS AND THE MARCH FROM KABUL TO KANDAHAR, AFGHANISTAN, 1879–80 | Weapons and Warfare
  
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  13

  ''Deliverance at Hand''. Now 15 years on &....

  by Beth Sarim in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ....and still no big 'a'.

  armageddon.. it was 15 years ago dubland was in lala dream-like almost trance-like state hanging on the notion the big 'a' was imminent.. it was ironic.

  ironic at that time was when.... i was starting my long waking-up process.

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  Rivergang

  Dubs everywhere were more than convinced it was the last ''convention ever'', ''dont even bother making plans'' or vacations for the next year or so.

  They said exactly the same about their "Peace on Earth" international assemblies in 1969!

  
  
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  34

  “Well at least he doesn’t make mean tweets”

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i asked a tennis friend this morning what he thought about what’s going on in afghanistan and he said it was terrible.

  he was a military man and identifies as a middle of the road republican.

  he supported most of trump’s policies but voted for biden because he couldn’t take trump’s mean tweets.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Rivergang

  Just the geography alone of Afghanistan works heavily against any invader.

  For example, Alexander the Great lost more of his army in just crossing that country from south to north, than he ever lost in any single battle that he fought. By the time his Greco-Macedonian army had marched through the Hindu Kush mountains then crossed the desert areas to the north of those, it was in a very sorry state. This was further exacerbated when even more of his thirst-stricken men died after gorging themselves on water, once they had reached the Oxus River, on Afghanistan's northern border.

  As Winston Churchill once observed "Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it".