Rivergang

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Posts by Rivergang

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  112

  Afghanistan-Kabul falls to Taliban - U.S. Embassy staff evacuated by helicopter

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a scene reminiscent of the fall of saigon, the usa embassy staff have been evacuated by helicopter.. for a third time in asia ( a fourth, if you count usa supported chiang kai shek's defeat in mainland china) usa supported forces have been defeated.

  more than 1 trillion dollars wasted and a huge deathtoll (both sides) afghanistan is back to where it started,.

  will the taliban behave differently this time ?

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  Rivergang

  "Losing face" is considered a very serious matter in Asia - including China.
• 
  112

  Afghanistan-Kabul falls to Taliban - U.S. Embassy staff evacuated by helicopter

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a scene reminiscent of the fall of saigon, the usa embassy staff have been evacuated by helicopter.. for a third time in asia ( a fourth, if you count usa supported chiang kai shek's defeat in mainland china) usa supported forces have been defeated.

  more than 1 trillion dollars wasted and a huge deathtoll (both sides) afghanistan is back to where it started,.

  will the taliban behave differently this time ?

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• 

  Rivergang

  then begin “relocating” the natives to concentration camps to harvest their organs…. Just like they have with the uyghurs

  In which case, they too would join that long list of other powers who came a "gutser" by attempting to invade Afghanistan. That would be one way of diminishing the power and prestige of the People's Republic of China!
• 
  112

  Afghanistan-Kabul falls to Taliban - U.S. Embassy staff evacuated by helicopter

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a scene reminiscent of the fall of saigon, the usa embassy staff have been evacuated by helicopter.. for a third time in asia ( a fourth, if you count usa supported chiang kai shek's defeat in mainland china) usa supported forces have been defeated.

  more than 1 trillion dollars wasted and a huge deathtoll (both sides) afghanistan is back to where it started,.

  will the taliban behave differently this time ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Rivergang

  FTS,

  I must indeed get hold of a copy of Barbara Tuchman's book.

  In Prisoners of Hope, Michael Calvert made frequent mention of Joseph Stilwell. During the final phases of their 1944 campaign, the Chindits were actually placed under the command of Stilwell (or "Vinegar Joe", as he was commonly known as). It made for a rocky relationship - Stilwell as a renown Anglophobe, always concerned that the "Limeys" were going to "run away". However, Calvert's overall impression of Stilwell was that he was highly professional in his conduct, and that personal feelings did not influence in any way his judgement. (Stilwell also appreciated straight, honest language, which he certainly received from Calvert!).

  The British 14th Army referred to themselves as "The Forgotten Army", and it would seem that the Burma - China theatre of operations is one of the lesser known stories of WWII.
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  112

  Afghanistan-Kabul falls to Taliban - U.S. Embassy staff evacuated by helicopter

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a scene reminiscent of the fall of saigon, the usa embassy staff have been evacuated by helicopter.. for a third time in asia ( a fourth, if you count usa supported chiang kai shek's defeat in mainland china) usa supported forces have been defeated.

  more than 1 trillion dollars wasted and a huge deathtoll (both sides) afghanistan is back to where it started,.

  will the taliban behave differently this time ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Rivergang

  FTS,

  After WWII, one of Wingate's lieutenants, Michael Calvert, wrote a book (Prisoners of Hope), which described in detail the second (i.e. 1944) Chindit expedition into Burma. In this, he mentioned a captured Japanese document, containing an appreciation of the fighting qualities of their enemies.

  In this, the Japanese listed as most effective the Chinese, second most effective the Australians, third most effective were the Americans, followed by the British, then the Gurkhas, and finally at last place the Indians. At least during the earlier phases of the war against Japan, it was Chinese forces who offered the most successful resistance against Japanese invasion.

  Wingate arrived in Burma far too late to be able to influence events in 1941 - 42, and the British were bundled out of that colony with almost the same ease as they were defeated in Malaya and Singapore. A major - perhaps the major - achievement of his first (i.e. 1943) Chindit expedition was to demonstrate beyond any doubt that European soldiers could fight in the jungle just as well as anybody else could. (It also disrupted the Japanese plans for Burma for that year).

  According to the Japanese themselves, the following year's Chindit expedition into Burma saved India from conquest. When debriefed after the war, the Japanese commander in chief for South East Asia admitted that he had had to commit one entire infantry division, plus a large part of another, just to pursue the Chindit forces who were harassing his rear areas. In his estimation, any one of those formations would have been sufficient to "swing the balance" at the two critical battles (Kohima and Imphal) then being fought at the gateway to India.

  Wingate was a controversial character, variously described as "brilliant", "eccentric" and even straight out "mad". To a degree this is understandable - it was a time that called for thinking "outside of the box", and in the process, the army establishment was shown up as wanting.

  Calvert's 1952 work Prisoners of Hope is an informative read about those times and events.
• 
  46

  The unfolding crisis in Afghanistan is completely Joe Biden's fault, nobody else's

  by LoveUniHateExams in

  1. social
  2. current

  so, there's been a lot of talk on social media, blaming trump for the current crisis that began at the weekend.. it's a load of bullsh!t from deluded people who are desperate to blame anyone but joe biden, the idiot they voted for or at least wanted to win last november.. there is only one person, just one person, to blame: joe biden.. he has the heavy burden of making tough presidential decisions.. and after this debacle, it's reasonable to ask if he's up to making such decisions..

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  Rivergang

  Whatever else may have happened, at a time like this, the following statement still does ring rather true:

  However, as President John F. Kennedy ruefully noted after the Bay of Pigs failure in 1961, “victory has 100 fathers and defeat is an orphan”.
• 
  112

  Afghanistan-Kabul falls to Taliban - U.S. Embassy staff evacuated by helicopter

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a scene reminiscent of the fall of saigon, the usa embassy staff have been evacuated by helicopter.. for a third time in asia ( a fourth, if you count usa supported chiang kai shek's defeat in mainland china) usa supported forces have been defeated.

  more than 1 trillion dollars wasted and a huge deathtoll (both sides) afghanistan is back to where it started,.

  will the taliban behave differently this time ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Rivergang

  And back in the day, we all thought that their evacuation of Saigon was a complete b@ll$-Up!
• 
  112

  Afghanistan-Kabul falls to Taliban - U.S. Embassy staff evacuated by helicopter

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a scene reminiscent of the fall of saigon, the usa embassy staff have been evacuated by helicopter.. for a third time in asia ( a fourth, if you count usa supported chiang kai shek's defeat in mainland china) usa supported forces have been defeated.

  more than 1 trillion dollars wasted and a huge deathtoll (both sides) afghanistan is back to where it started,.

  will the taliban behave differently this time ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Rivergang

  During its 10 years in Afghanistan, the Soviet Union controlled the major urban centres of the country, and was usually able to use the highways that connect these together, although even that could not always be guaranteed. (Soviet motor traffic did risk being ambushed when it travelled those roads).

  As for the remainder of Afghanistan - which makes up the large majority of its surface area - the best that can be said is that this was "contested". All too often, Soviet soldiers "controlled" the ground immediately below their army boots, but very little else.

  Diverging a little now, but the matter of WWII has been raised by other, so a few comments about that are appropriate. The fact is, during the early stages of the war against Japan, none of the Western allies fought particularly well. (Jungle warfare was something that had previously been hardly thought of, and only the Japanese were in any way prepared for it). The debacle at the British "fortress" of Singapore is well known, and the ease with which the Japanese over ran all European territories in South East Asia quickly led to them gaining the reputation of being supermen.

  Included in that list of Allied forces who initially performed badly against the Japanese are those of the United States. Despite being full of bravado when first deployed to New Guinea, US army units broke and ran during their first encounter with the Japanese. (For a full description of these events, Lex Macaulay's To the Bitter End is an informative read). According to the memoirs of Lieutenant General George Kenny (USAAF), when the Commander of Allied Land Forces in the SW Pacific Command, General Thomas Blamey, was asked what reinforcements he wanted to finish clearing the Japanese from the north Papuan Coast area, he said bluntly "Australians, because I know they will fight".

  Also, Japan's first defeat on land occurred in the Milne Bay area of what is now Papua New Guinea. That defeat was inflicted on them by Australian forces - some of whom (the 61st Battalion of the Australian militia) were regarded as decidedly second rate troops. (Another very informative read is Peter Brune's A Bastard of a Place - Australian Operations in Papua, in which the Battle of Milne Bay is described in detail).

  Concurrent with that battle was an epic campaign fought along the Kokoda Track in New Guinea. Anybody that has read the history of that campaign, in which the Japanese were halted within just one day's march of Port Moresby, could hardly use the word "soft" to describe the Australian and Papuan personnel who took part in it. Even today, it is quite a challenge just to trek through the Owen Stanley Ranges from Ower's Corner in the south to Kokoda village to the north. One can only imagine the difficulties of carrying out military operations at the same time.

  To be fair on everybody, Allied forces soon adapted to jungle warfare, and then proved themselves more than adequate for the task. (This includes the British 14th Army that cleared the Japanese out of Burma, and particularly the special forces, the "Chindits" under Major General Orde Wingate).
  
• 
  112

  Afghanistan-Kabul falls to Taliban - U.S. Embassy staff evacuated by helicopter

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a scene reminiscent of the fall of saigon, the usa embassy staff have been evacuated by helicopter.. for a third time in asia ( a fourth, if you count usa supported chiang kai shek's defeat in mainland china) usa supported forces have been defeated.

  more than 1 trillion dollars wasted and a huge deathtoll (both sides) afghanistan is back to where it started,.

  will the taliban behave differently this time ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Rivergang

  Justaguy,

  There are two ways in which an enemy can be defeated. One is by straight out destruction of his forces on the battlefield. The other is by more subtle means - destruction of his will to fight.

  Invariably, any power that has ever attempted to occupy Afghanistan has ended up falling prey to that second one. They can indeed win a series of battlefield victories, but which still don't bring the conflict to a definite conclusion. Their (Afghan) enemies just will never oblige by handing over their rifles and simply giving up the ghost!

  This is not at all unique, either, to Afghanistan. When you follow the history of any successful guerrilla type war, you can see the same pattern. One example is the Tet offensive in Vietnam (January-February 1968) that resulted in a heavy battlefield defeat for the Communist forces, yet sufficiently unnerved America and its allies that they lost the will to continue the conflict. Another example is the Algerian War of Independence. During that conflict (1954 - 1962), the FLN suffered a decisive military defeat; yet in the process of handing out that military defeat, the French nation lost its will to keep up the charade in Algeria.

  Such "low-intensity" conflicts can never be won by military means alone. That seems to be a lesson the USA, in particular, has failed to learn over and over again.

  The British Empire, during its time, achieved some notable victories in Afghanistan. In the Second Afghan War of 1878-1880, Lord Roberts won a brilliant victory at Peiwar Kotal. Later, with a 10,000 man force, he carried out an epic 300 mile forced march to lift the siege of Kandahar - an event which was concluded by yet another decisive battlefield victory. However, by that time, the British at least had the smarts enough not to attempt to colonise the country. Their forces were withdrawn, and from that point onwards, Britain used more subtle means to advance its interests in Afghanistan.
• 
  112

  Afghanistan-Kabul falls to Taliban - U.S. Embassy staff evacuated by helicopter

  by fulltimestudent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  in a scene reminiscent of the fall of saigon, the usa embassy staff have been evacuated by helicopter.. for a third time in asia ( a fourth, if you count usa supported chiang kai shek's defeat in mainland china) usa supported forces have been defeated.

  more than 1 trillion dollars wasted and a huge deathtoll (both sides) afghanistan is back to where it started,.

  will the taliban behave differently this time ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Rivergang

  The below cartoon was recently published in a New Zealand newspaper, and sums up the inevitable conclusion of any foreign occupation of Afghanistan. Blame any political leader you like, but the result was going to be inevitable, even before it started.

  
• 
  11

  CNN reporter: They're chanting 'death to America!' but they seem friendly at the same time

  by LoveUniHateExams in

  1. social
  2. current

  i can't actually post the clip because i'm in a public library and their administrator won't let me find the clip.. but, a cnn woman reporter apparently on the ground in kabul, in full hijab, actually says the above clip.. please, please please, may the clip be just a parody, lol..

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  Rivergang

  Don't rely on western media to be honest about what is actually going on in Kabul.

  In that Machiavellian world of the Middle East, honesty is a very scarce commodity; things are very seldom ever as they may first appear to be.

  A good litmus test is to consider whether or not that spokesman were to gain any advantage by telling the truth. If this were to confer to them no tangible benefit, the odds are almost certain that they aren't speaking truthfully.

  While that may seem a biased outlook on things, one needs to carefully consider the merits of the three main methods of discovery:

  i.e.

  (i) Listen and comply with a spoken warning.

  (ii) Read and comply with a written warning.

  (iii) Or .... urinate on the electric fence and find out for your bloody self!

  (No apologies for throwing in a bit of farm-spun wisdom)