That silly ritual of passing the emblems back and forward to the speaker and servers always bothered me. I tried many times as an Elder to try and stop it, but was always overruled by the majority!
doubtfull1799
JoinedPosts by doubtfull1799
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Ritualistic behaviour within the JW faith
by stuckinarut2 ini was thinking about how the society criticises other faiths such as catholics because of their ritualistic procedures.. but couldn't it be said that witnesses have their own deeply ritualistic behaviours?.
think about the prayers said at meetings.
they all have to follow the same basic style and theme, and include the same basic content.. what about the ritualistic procedures of the memorial, and the passing of emblems - even to the servers and speaker (although they actually handle them more than everyone, they do their own special act of passing them to each other).
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Research Help?
by vienne inas at least some of you know, i am coauthor of two history books about zion's watch tower's earliest years.
we are at a dead end with one of the watch tower's earliest evangelists, s. d. rogers.
we do not know his first name or have any biography outside of a scattering of newspaper articles and mentions in zwt.
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doubtfull1799
Which two books are those vienne? Would be interested to read them (if I haven't already!)
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Apostasy endorsed in this yesterday's Watchtower Study
by doubtfull1799 in“there may be occasions when it would be good for us to reconsider a choice or decision.
it could be when the prevailing circumstances change.
jehovah altered his decision at times when circumstances changed.
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doubtfull1799
Either 1. The GB are making it up as they go along, or 2. Jehovah is revealing new adjustments to them all the time? If it’s the former, they can’t be trusted, if it's the latter, God can’t be trusted!
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Apostasy endorsed in this yesterday's Watchtower Study
by doubtfull1799 in“there may be occasions when it would be good for us to reconsider a choice or decision.
it could be when the prevailing circumstances change.
jehovah altered his decision at times when circumstances changed.
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doubtfull1799
“There may be occasions when it would be good for us to reconsider a choice or decision. It could be when the prevailing circumstances change. Jehovah altered his decision at times when circumstances changed. (1 Ki. 21:20, 21, 27-29; 2 Ki. 20:1-5) Or new information may provide us with a valid reason to adjust a decision. King David was given faulty information about Saul’s grandson Mephibosheth. When David later received accurate information, he amended his decision. (2 Sam. 16:3, 4; 19:24-29) At times, it may be wise for us to do similarly.”
Excerpt From: WATCHTOWER. “The Watchtower, March 2017.”
When we discover our association with the CCOJW is based on faulty information, and we find better accurate information, changing our mind about what we believe (apostasy) is the right and proper thing to do.
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Review of Awake Magazine: Philosophy 101: How to Construct a Logical Syllogism
by Saename inthis morning my brother and my mother (whom i mentioned in my previous topic when we had a conversation about evolution) visited a jehovah's witness, and when they returned, they returned with the awake!
magazine that they received from the witness.
the magazine is entitled, "is the bible really from god?
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doubtfull1799
The other problem with that Awake issue is it relies solely on Selection Bias. For every point they cherry pick one or two Bible passages which support the point being made, while ignoring all the other Bible passages that falsify it.
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The Carrot or the Stick?
by doubtfull1799 inin my time as an elder i attended many elders schools etc and we were often instructed to use the carrot, not the stick.
use commendation and encouragement as opposed to pressuring or guilting the brothers into field service etc.. it seems in that approach we were not imitating jehovah.
read deuteronomy chapter 28: carrot - first 13 verses.
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doubtfull1799
Thanks for the contribution @Saethydd - all great points.
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The Carrot or the Stick?
by doubtfull1799 inin my time as an elder i attended many elders schools etc and we were often instructed to use the carrot, not the stick.
use commendation and encouragement as opposed to pressuring or guilting the brothers into field service etc.. it seems in that approach we were not imitating jehovah.
read deuteronomy chapter 28: carrot - first 13 verses.
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doubtfull1799
In my time as an Elder I attended many Elders Schools etc and we were often instructed to use the carrot, not the stick. Use commendation and encouragement as opposed to pressuring or guilting the brothers into field service etc.
It seems in that approach we were not imitating Jehovah. Read Deuteronomy chapter 28: Carrot - first 13 verses. Stick - the remaining 55 verses! Seems Jehovah takes far more pleasure in using the stick. And what a horrible stick he uses!!! No quick painless death for His servants. NO, he really wanted them to suffer first.... Now tell me again, why we said the concept of Hell did not fit God's personality?
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Jerusalem's destruction.....
by Unstuck inhello all - so me and stuckinarut2 are at the state library proving to ourselves that wt has it all wrong re: 607. i've read at length jwfacts, jwsurvey and crisis of conscience that all go into the subject and i've just downloaded gentile times reconsidered.. while it is fabulous to have someone else compile all the research and evidence for you, it is quite another to see it in print for yourself - and so, here we are.. while we wait for our array of books i couldn't help but share with you how the state library has catalogued jewish history - 586 bc to 70 ad.
no mention of 607 as a key date as far as the library's catalogue is concerned!!
evidence before we have our books!!.
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doubtfull1799
Love that- even the catalogues testify to the big lie!
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Huffington Post: When Is A Religion 'Extremist'? [Food for thought!]
by AndersonsInfo inhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/when-is-a-religion-extremist_us_590de8e3e4b046ea176aeb98.
tim rymel, m.ed.. governments who support “religious freedom” over the equal human rights and dignity of others condone, and even endorse discrimination.. 05/06/2017 11:27 am et | photo – flickr/ justin kern .
government endorsement of any religious ideology creates religious extremism.
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doubtfull1799
The JW claim is that EXTREMISM = VIOLENCE. They are NOT violent, therefore they are NOT extremist. This is a bit of a straw man argument since they are extremist in their thinking, they just outsource the violent application of their theology.
However, while I don't think it actually will, there is nothing to stop that from changing in a heartbeat. They are always re-interpreting and "refining" their theology, so what if one day they decide they have "new light" - Jehovah no longer requires they outsource vengeance to Him, he is asking them to exact vengeance themselves, in His behalf, with His authorisation. Would they all wake up at that point? Or would some keep following the lead of the slave and accept this new direction?
The fact that it would not be in their interests to do so would stop them ever making that change one would hope, but theoretically.....
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How did we get from singular ha-Elohim (God) to plural ha-Elohim (judges)?
by I_love_Jeff inread exodus 22:6-8
jps tanakh : 6 when a man gives money or goods to another for safekeeping, and they are stolen from the man’s house if the thief is caught, he shall pay double; 7 if the thief is not caught, the owner of the house shall come near (נקרב) to god (האלהים) that he has not laid hands on the other’s property.
8 in all charges of misappropriation pertaining to an ox, an ***, a sheep, a garment, or any other loss, whereof one party alleges, “this is it” the case of both parties shall come before god (האלהים): he whom god (אלהים ) declares guilty (ַיְר ִשי ֻףן) shall pay double to the other.
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doubtfull1799
Fascinating thread. Thanks for starting it @1_Love_Jeff. And thanks for your contribution @David_Jay. Always really interesting to hear your well informed and in depth comments from the Jewish perspective on things.