you heard me correct, this is not a joke, and it is not april fools day!
the asl portion of the governing body updated #2 (march 2024) has been released a bit early and someone caught it.
summary: .
I love how slo-o-o-wly and ca-a-arefully Sanderson made sure to EMPHASIZE the change in procedure for minors, accentuating “under the age of 18”. It’s like he was speaking in bold italics.
”Did you catch that, all you government attorneys, members of parliament, and cabinet members? I said under the age of 18. Minors that is. We don’t disfellowship minors (well mostly not)”.
Amazing how “Jehovah’s chariot” is so in tune with the Norwegian government.
you heard me correct, this is not a joke, and it is not april fools day!
the asl portion of the governing body updated #2 (march 2024) has been released a bit early and someone caught it.
summary: .
Amazing what a little negative publicity and court defeats can do, not to mention threatened loss of tax exemptions.
What’s next, blood? Recall that in 2001 they were just about set to allow autologous blood storage and transfusions, and that was smack in the Jaracz era. That’s just about the only “big” thing left to dismantle. Would not be surprised to see that softened, or even virtually removed, by end of year.
As you said, this is not the same religion as it was for the past century. Not even the same as last week.
I wonder what the old timers will think?
Even the most fully indoctrinated will be able to piece together “Morris dismissed, 2 new guys added on, and now suddenly there are seismic changes and restructuring of everything JWs stood for for decades in a very short time”.
Another thing I would not be surprised to see, especially if these changes continue as quickly as they have been: a schism between hardliners and liberals, perhaps not at Bethel, but at the congregation or even circuit level.
translated with google translate:.
the trial went before oslo district court in january, and now the district court has concluded that the state is acquitted.
jehovah's witnesses are also ordered to pay court costs of just over nok 1.1 million.. https://www-vg-no.translate.goog/nyheter/innenriks/i/2bljxg/staten-frikjennes-etter-aa-ha-blitt-saksoekt-av-jehovas-vitner-melder-dagen?_x_tr_sl=ka&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp.
Just a little idle speculation….
The Norway verdict, in effect, says “JWs are not a religion”.
Can a “not a religion” sponsor a “religious order”? I.e. the “religious order” that all Bethelites and “special full time servants” (COs, construction workers, etc.) enroll in and swear to support - can it continue as part of a “not a religion”?
And if not, can the WTS continue to pay them only a small pittance for their long work weeks? Or are all those workers due (taxable) compensation? Maybe back wages?
How many European governments could successfully use this “not a religion” verdict as precedent to enact similar measures?
I’m no attorney, much less someone with knowledge of European laws related to religion, but these seem to be legitimate questions.
Anyone out there able to provide a little analysis? Maybe we have to wait until the actual text of the verdict is available?
translated with google translate:.
the trial went before oslo district court in january, and now the district court has concluded that the state is acquitted.
jehovah's witnesses are also ordered to pay court costs of just over nok 1.1 million.. https://www-vg-no.translate.goog/nyheter/innenriks/i/2bljxg/staten-frikjennes-etter-aa-ha-blitt-saksoekt-av-jehovas-vitner-melder-dagen?_x_tr_sl=ka&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp.
They lost no time in gloating about their getting an appeal on the original verdict and how sure they were of Jehovah’s blessing, in one of those insufferable “GB updates” a few months back.
Gosh, I wonder if they’ll mention this latest verdict with the same enthusiasm?
On a more serious note, does anyone know if they have any last resort to appeal again? Maybe the ECHR? Though it’s hard for me to believe “the government stopped giving our corporation free money” as a human rights issue.
i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.
from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.
there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.
It is awfully muddled, isn’t it?
That’s one of the things I’ve noticed over the past decade or so - their “continuity checks” seem to be lacking. I’ve seen contradictions not just a few weeks or months apart, but even in the same magazine.
Anyways, my best guess would be something like this:
Old Light: when JWs give their “hailstone message”, it’s going to be a sort of “ha ha, God’s gonna get you suckas, you’re doomed doomed DOOMED and there’s nothing you can do about it.”
New Light: when Jaws give their “hailstone message”, some people might be shocked into repentance and they can join at the last minute, “Ha ha suckas, you’re DOOMED but if you act in the next 15 minutes and decide to join our side, God might let you. Clock’s ticking.”
according to watchtower, only anointed christians existed between the first and 20th centuries.
the great crowd of other sheep only began forming after the 20th century started.. how do they support this conclusion?
.
As Tonus suggested, the math doesn’t work.
But of course, most JWs are incapable of anything resembling intelligent analysis so they just kind of shrug and ignore it.
The few attempts I’ve heard are a type “no true Scotsman” fallacy:
“Not everyone claiming to be a Christian really was a Christian, the apostasy was already working in the apostle Paul’s time, yada yada yada, hand wave here, misdirection there, why are you asking that question? Have you been reading apostate literature?”
eric wilson's video is worth a view.. https://youtu.be/iil4fryuczk?si=f566n0tdqgpqc2ok.
The tax free status is the lifeblood of the organization. If it goes away,,,the Borg goes away.
As I’ve said a number of times here:
If the organization expended 0.1% of the effort it makes to avoid paying even one penny of tax into cleaning up its CSA issues, it would have by far the cleanest and most innocent organization on the face of the earth.
https://youtu.be/pi7sn2rnrke?si=lnvklqct6nuayv2q.
branches of jehovah’s witnesses: 85 (= down one from 86 from the previous year and quite possibly they are referring to the hong kong bethel that closed down recently).
number of lands reporting: 239 ( =the same as 2022).
Yeah, I get what TOH is saying. Perhaps my comparison was a bit coarse.
But still, if your gross increase is 4% and your gross loss is 3%, your net increase is 1%.
Your net increase is 1% “in reality”. What counts is the net, not the gross.
The JWs are able to replace their members who die, quit, or are kicked out, plus a little more. But the replacements are by and large, especially in the western world, children of believers who are groomed from birth to become baptized JWs. The majority of those born-in baptized JWs will get kicked out or quit within 10-15 years of baptism.
A net growth of 1% isn’t an indicator of robust growth. The numbers are still increasing but the slope of the growth curve is already past it’s inflection point. It’s inevitable that at some point within “X” years even the net will drop into the negative numbers.
https://youtu.be/pi7sn2rnrke?si=lnvklqct6nuayv2q.
branches of jehovah’s witnesses: 85 (= down one from 86 from the previous year and quite possibly they are referring to the hong kong bethel that closed down recently).
number of lands reporting: 239 ( =the same as 2022).
If you therefore have a 0 per cent growth, that "in reality" means a 3 per cent growth, because you have substituted those who left with new ones.
LOL!
That’s pretty hysterical.
I earned 50,000 per year over the past 20 years. I have 0 in my bank account, “In reality” I have 1 million because I shouldn’t factor in the money I spent?
Maybe I can afford that villa in Côte d’Azur because, even though I have 0 in my bank account, the real estate agent will instead consider what I have “in reality”?
Nice try.
what’s keeping them?
this has got to be the latest it’s ever been.
maybe it’s the last one they’ll ever publish too, after dropping reporting hours for publishers ….
Yes they have decline across most of Latin America. I wonder what’s causing that.
The obvious answer is emigration / immigration.
JWs are joining millions of their compatriots in fleeing crime & poverty in Latin America and going to North America & Europe.
You can’t look at one country in a vacuum and expect it to make sense.
Organic growth is minuscule outside of Africa. New baptisms are an ever dwindling percentage of their numbers, and even a large majority of those are the teen (and even preteen) children of believers who are, frankly, too young to know what they are getting into. Most will likely get DF’ed or fade within the next decade or two.
Agreed that the JWs are doing comparatively better than other religious organizations but the growth is slowly, inexorably grinding to a halt.
Relaxing the rules can prop up the numbers for a few more years, maybe a decade, but the mojo is gone.
