FFGhost

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Posts by FFGhost

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  194

  GB Update #2, March 2024: Women allowed to wear pants, no ties/coats required if not giving a talk, & now able to greet DF ones in the KH!

  by WingCommander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  you heard me correct, this is not a joke, and it is not april fools day!

  the asl portion of the governing body updated #2 (march 2024) has been released a bit early and someone caught it.

  summary: .

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  FFGhost

  Can someone clarify for me: Did the new announcement specify DF'ing as only lasting 90 days now?

  It wasn’t in the video, but it is in the new “top secret” document for elders that is plastered all over the internet now (here, too, look for the thread by Atlantis).

  It’s one of the biggest changes of all.

  Old policy: if you are DF’ed, you must wait for an unspecified amount of time, typically at the barest of bare minimums 6 months, but in practice most often a year or longer. Then you, the DF’ed person, must write a groveling letter pleading to be readmítted. Some elders I know would routinely dismiss any “first letter” and make the DF write again, sometimes again and again, to “prove” the sincerity of their repentance.

  Current policy: The elders of the committee chase after the DF person after only 3 months. They invite him to a meeting and determine if he can be readmitted right then and there. Nothing in writing needed at all.

  The tone of the instructions (you can read it for yourself) is “in the vast majority of cases, if anyone is DF’ed, they should be readmitted after 3 months”.

  It’s a seismic change.
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  8

  Just a thought

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  is the change in jw dress policy a way to make the changes in df policy easier to accept?.

  a way to devide?.

  g..

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  FFGhost

  I don’t see much change in the df policy.

  You don’t? Read the s-395 again.

  Will a dfd still have to attend meetings for 6 months to be reinstated?

  Absolutely not - read the s-395.

  A summary of the most significant changes:

  — multiple meetings with the “accused” are encouraged, even apparently expected, to try to “lead him to repentance”. In the past, the “accused” got exactly one meeting, one shot to convince the committee he was “repentant”. Fail to do so, certain DF.

  — Elders “chase after” a DF person after only 3 months, checking to see if he can return. In the past, a return after 3 months was utterly scandalous. 6 months was the absolute bare minimum, typically only granted if the DF’ed person formerly had, or has current family members, of enormous importance. Waiting a year or longer was much more the norm.

  — in the past, the DF’ed person had to write a formal letter, pleading for reinstatement and presenting a long list of how they were “repairing their relationship with Jehovah”. Now, elders chase after them, asking THEM if they want to return, every 3 months.

  — Minors are virtually never going to be DF’ed anymore. If the parents have the “situation in hand” (an extraordinarily, and probably intentionally, vague term, almost to the point of meaninglessness), not only is the kid not DF’ed, there’s not even a judicial committee.

  — Formerly, it was a prominent “virtue signal” for “exemplary” publishers and those with “privileges” to go out of their way to shun anyone DF’ed, particularly and specifically when other JWs were around. Now, such “privileged” folks are expected to publicly speak kind words to anyone DF’ed who shows up at a meeting, doing so repeatedly as the DF keeps coming.

  It’s an enormous change, but (in my opinion) only a transitional phase. It’s as much as they could “get away with” springing on JWs all at once. More changes are coming (again, my opinion).

  Sorry for derailing the thread, it just bugs me to see folks shrug and say “eh, it’s no big deal”. In the (previously) glacially slow to change world of JWs, it’s as big as it gets.

  Answering the OP, I think it was very likely intended to “distract” the (few remaining) thinking JWs from considering how deep the other changes are.
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  194

  GB Update #2, March 2024: Women allowed to wear pants, no ties/coats required if not giving a talk, & now able to greet DF ones in the KH!

  by WingCommander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  you heard me correct, this is not a joke, and it is not april fools day!

  the asl portion of the governing body updated #2 (march 2024) has been released a bit early and someone caught it.

  summary: .

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  FFGhost

  I admit I have not read every comment on this thread, so if someone commented on it and I missed it, apologies.

  Did you catch the point slipped into the new S-395 form, paragraph 15?

  If someone ends up being DF’ed despite all the lax new rules, elders will meet with him/her after only three months, unless he is “apostate or actively promoting wrongdoing”. It then says “in some cases” the DF’ed person could be reinstated after just those 3 months.

  This is an aftershock of gigantic proportions. Only 3 months? I can think of dozens, if not hundreds, of elders I have personally known who wouldn’t even consider a request for reinstatement in less than a year, maybe longer, and just dismiss such a request out of hand. Now, the DF’ed person doesn’t even need to submit a written request - the elders chase after him/her after only 3 months and, it sounds like, in only the rarest of occasions would extend the DF period for longer.

  I mentioned this in one of my earlier posts: this is the kind of thing that leads to schisms. It’s going to give the hardliner elders, easily more than 50% of the total out there, absolute screaming hissy fits.

  If this really is, as some are intimating, just the “tip of the iceberg”, there will be groups splitting off the JWs before the decade is out.

  There are many many MANY elders out there who get their “jollies” from being the “tough guys”, who view themselves as champions, protectors, guardians of moral sanctity and the chaste pureness of “Jehovah’s congregation”. Now they’re going to be chasing after DF’ed people after a few months and begging them to return? Nope I can’t see it.

  A LOT of these guys just simply won’t be able to do it. But rather than resign and lose power, I think they’ll start splitting off.

  Don’t laugh - it happened in Romania in the 50s, it happened several times 1916 - 1930, it can definitely happen again.
• 
  194

  GB Update #2, March 2024: Women allowed to wear pants, no ties/coats required if not giving a talk, & now able to greet DF ones in the KH!

  by WingCommander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  you heard me correct, this is not a joke, and it is not april fools day!

  the asl portion of the governing body updated #2 (march 2024) has been released a bit early and someone caught it.

  summary: .

  1. 
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  3. 
• 

  FFGhost

  I love how slo-o-o-wly and ca-a-arefully Sanderson made sure to EMPHASIZE the change in procedure for minors, accentuating “under the age of 18”. It’s like he was speaking in bold italics.

  ”Did you catch that, all you government attorneys, members of parliament, and cabinet members? I said under the age of 18. Minors that is. We don’t disfellowship minors (well mostly not)”.

  Amazing how “Jehovah’s chariot” is so in tune with the Norwegian government.
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  194

  GB Update #2, March 2024: Women allowed to wear pants, no ties/coats required if not giving a talk, & now able to greet DF ones in the KH!

  by WingCommander in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  you heard me correct, this is not a joke, and it is not april fools day!

  the asl portion of the governing body updated #2 (march 2024) has been released a bit early and someone caught it.

  summary: .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  FFGhost

  Amazing what a little negative publicity and court defeats can do, not to mention threatened loss of tax exemptions.

  What’s next, blood? Recall that in 2001 they were just about set to allow autologous blood storage and transfusions, and that was smack in the Jaracz era. That’s just about the only “big” thing left to dismantle. Would not be surprised to see that softened, or even virtually removed, by end of year.

  As you said, this is not the same religion as it was for the past century. Not even the same as last week.

  I wonder what the old timers will think?

  Even the most fully indoctrinated will be able to piece together “Morris dismissed, 2 new guys added on, and now suddenly there are seismic changes and restructuring of everything JWs stood for for decades in a very short time”.

  Another thing I would not be surprised to see, especially if these changes continue as quickly as they have been: a schism between hardliners and liberals, perhaps not at Bethel, but at the congregation or even circuit level.
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  18

  JWs in Norway lost to the state - will not get state support back

  by BelisemDeBelimakom in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  translated with google translate:.

  the trial went before oslo district court in january, and now the district court has concluded that the state is acquitted.

  jehovah's witnesses are also ordered to pay court costs of just over nok 1.1 million.. https://www-vg-no.translate.goog/nyheter/innenriks/i/2bljxg/staten-frikjennes-etter-aa-ha-blitt-saksoekt-av-jehovas-vitner-melder-dagen?_x_tr_sl=ka&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp.

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  FFGhost

  Just a little idle speculation….

  The Norway verdict, in effect, says “JWs are not a religion”.

  Can a “not a religion” sponsor a “religious order”? I.e. the “religious order” that all Bethelites and “special full time servants” (COs, construction workers, etc.) enroll in and swear to support - can it continue as part of a “not a religion”?

  And if not, can the WTS continue to pay them only a small pittance for their long work weeks? Or are all those workers due (taxable) compensation? Maybe back wages?

  How many European governments could successfully use this “not a religion” verdict as precedent to enact similar measures?

  I’m no attorney, much less someone with knowledge of European laws related to religion, but these seem to be legitimate questions.

  Anyone out there able to provide a little analysis? Maybe we have to wait until the actual text of the verdict is available?
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  18

  JWs in Norway lost to the state - will not get state support back

  by BelisemDeBelimakom in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  translated with google translate:.

  the trial went before oslo district court in january, and now the district court has concluded that the state is acquitted.

  jehovah's witnesses are also ordered to pay court costs of just over nok 1.1 million.. https://www-vg-no.translate.goog/nyheter/innenriks/i/2bljxg/staten-frikjennes-etter-aa-ha-blitt-saksoekt-av-jehovas-vitner-melder-dagen?_x_tr_sl=ka&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp.

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  FFGhost

  They lost no time in gloating about their getting an appeal on the original verdict and how sure they were of Jehovah’s blessing, in one of those insufferable “GB updates” a few months back.

  Gosh, I wonder if they’ll mention this latest verdict with the same enthusiasm?

  On a more serious note, does anyone know if they have any last resort to appeal again? Maybe the ECHR? Though it’s hard for me to believe “the government stopped giving our corporation free money” as a human rights issue.
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  144

  Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

  from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

  there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

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  FFGhost

  It is awfully muddled, isn’t it?

  That’s one of the things I’ve noticed over the past decade or so - their “continuity checks” seem to be lacking. I’ve seen contradictions not just a few weeks or months apart, but even in the same magazine.

  Anyways, my best guess would be something like this:

  Old Light: when JWs give their “hailstone message”, it’s going to be a sort of “ha ha, God’s gonna get you suckas, you’re doomed doomed DOOMED and there’s nothing you can do about it.”

  New Light: when Jaws give their “hailstone message”, some people might be shocked into repentance and they can join at the last minute, “Ha ha suckas, you’re DOOMED but if you act in the next 15 minutes and decide to join our side, God might let you. Clock’s ticking.”
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  43

  How do JWs know that less than 150,000 Christians existed before the 20th Century?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  according to watchtower, only anointed christians existed between the first and 20th centuries.

  the great crowd of other sheep only began forming after the 20th century started.. how do they support this conclusion?

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  FFGhost

  As Tonus suggested, the math doesn’t work.

  But of course, most JWs are incapable of anything resembling intelligent analysis so they just kind of shrug and ignore it.

  The few attempts I’ve heard are a type “no true Scotsman” fallacy:

  “Not everyone claiming to be a Christian really was a Christian, the apostasy was already working in the apostle Paul’s time, yada yada yada, hand wave here, misdirection there, why are you asking that question? Have you been reading apostate literature?”
  
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  56

  The Reason Behind Recent Watchtower Changes

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  eric wilson's video is worth a view.. https://youtu.be/iil4fryuczk?si=f566n0tdqgpqc2ok.

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  FFGhost

  The tax free status is the lifeblood of the organization. If it goes away,,,the Borg goes away.

  As I’ve said a number of times here:

  If the organization expended 0.1% of the effort it makes to avoid paying even one penny of tax into cleaning up its CSA issues, it would have by far the cleanest and most innocent organization on the face of the earth.