i was thinking today about the descriptions of the future "paradise" presented by the watchtower, and i was struck by something about it.
most of us are aware that the watchtower promotes an interpretation of the apocalypse that would result in the immediate execution of 99.9% of the population with no hope for resurrection.
additionally, we have been told about the large group of people that are supposed to side with satan at the end of the thousand year reign of christ.
Juan Viejo2: So what do you do after you've lived a thousand years? Ten thousand years?
When I was in the fifth grade I had a teacher who asked me this very question. She had dealt with JW students before and was pretty hostile towards the religion, but looking back I can see that she really was doing all she could to wake me up without getting her ass fired. I remember one day she caught me placing pamphlets inside student's desks when they were away at recess. That still makes me cringe.
so we all know how the organization conducts itself regarding child abuse.
the multitude of legal cases worldwide including the current australian royal commission as well as anecdotal accounts prove their attitude.. perpetrators have not been reported to authorities, and data bases of such have been kept sealed even when demanded by the courts!.
however, when it comes to those of us who have simply left the organization due to learning the truth, the society spares no effort in spreading gossip and ensuring that one's name and reputation is ruined.. so gb, which crime is worse?
Data-Dog, I do not condone child molestation and I myself am an apostate. I was merely explaining things from the perspective of a brainwashed JW so people would understand the logic (or is that illogic) of the GB's position.
If you want back in the bOrg you have to repent of your sin; the severity of the sin is totally irrelevant to JWs. Child molestors are a lot more likely to repent (or pretend to repent) than apostates because they aren't opposing the GB on any kind of principle, they just got caught doing something they knew they shouldn't be doing. Consequently, child molestors (assuming they are even caught in the first place) receive a slap on the wrist before being welcomed back with open arms, while apostates get shunned forever even though they are much better people by nearly any conceivable moral or ethical standard.
Also, I enjoy comparing myself with Satan. It makes me feel like a real bad ass. There are many times I have wished that the Christian BS (belief system) were true so I could join Satan and devote my life to 'evil'.
its been pointed out to me that two eye witnesses are always needed for elders to form a judicial case.
the sister could have sex with a brother.
she confesses and he denies, he gets off free, sure.
The reason that the 2 witness rules is so messed up is that no child molestor is dumb enough to let anyone witness their crime. The only witness is the victim! So unless the perp is molesting more than one kid at a time or gets caught literally with his pants down, he's immune to prosecution!
In my congregation this is actually what happened to a brother. His wife caught him doing something with their daughter. If I knew who he was I might turn him in myself, but this is just something my mom picked up from the JW rumor mill.
While it's true that kids do lie like everyone else, there are actually fairly reliable methods of determining guilt. Just run the kid's clothing or bed sheets over with a black light. Is there semen? Does its DNA match that of the accused? Case closed.
The reason the two witness rule exists is because the GB knows it doesn't work. They don't want it to be known that their 'clean' organization is crawling with pedos, so they have deliberately made it as difficult as possible to 'convict' them. Once you have recognized this, everything makes sense.
so we all know how the organization conducts itself regarding child abuse.
the multitude of legal cases worldwide including the current australian royal commission as well as anecdotal accounts prove their attitude.. perpetrators have not been reported to authorities, and data bases of such have been kept sealed even when demanded by the courts!.
however, when it comes to those of us who have simply left the organization due to learning the truth, the society spares no effort in spreading gossip and ensuring that one's name and reputation is ruined.. so gb, which crime is worse?
What makes apostasy different from any other sin is the lack of remorse. Even most child molestors probably believe that what they have done is wrong; but they just couldn't help themselves. Sex, after all, is the most powerful human instinct. In most people it overrides not only ethics and reason, but even self-preservation! So when a child-molestor is caught, he is likely to recognize that he was wrong and repent.
Contrast that with apostasy. Unlike sex, apostasy isn't some passion that overwhelms a basically good person and makes them do bad things. Apostasy is a very conscious, willful decision that involves the most human part of us: our intellect. Unlike the child molestor, the apostate isn't going to be contrite if he or she is caught. Chances are, the apostate won't even deny the accussation and will proudly defend their decision.
So even though the child-molestor has caused a lot of suffering and the apostate none at all, I totally understand why the former is handled with kid gloves while the latter is dealt with so harshly. Child molestors are just weak people who gave in to their basest instincts. Apostates, by contrast, are usually very strong, spiritual people who deliberately turn against Jehovah and his organization. It's the difference between Eve's sin and the fall of Lucifer. Eve and her husband were forgiven for their weakness, but Satan will never get that because he will never repent.
in genesis ch.1&2 god warns adam that if he ate of the tree of knowledge of good and bad he would die .theire was nothing said about anything else.. you would expect humans would just die of old age like adam and eve did.. the wages of sin is death the bible tells us .so if he disobeyed jehovah god he knew he would die .. what he never knew and neither did any other human to come after him was just how many ways death would come to humans.. death by creatures that were created by god venomous creatures ,snakes spiders etc.,marine creatures sharks etc., bacteria /viruses etc.,insect carrying diseases such as the mosquito that causes thousands of deaths to children under 5 years old even today with malaria.,wild animals etc,.leprosy that even existed under theocratic rule in the nation of israel.. then their is the indignties humans go through in old age ,loss of bodily functions , mental capacity ,alzheimers ,neurological diseases that effect young and old.that reduce people to almost live not much better than a vegetable .
natural disasters not to be excluded because these are in the control of god to afflict mankind or not.. the list of afflictions that humans have to suffer through before they die , from a loving god just boggles my mind.. and i have only scratched the surface of indignities humans have faced before they die.. so i ask the question is god jehovah guilty of the sin of omission ?
or did he act out of vengeance for their disobedience and wanted to inflict greater punishment upon them.for disobeying him.. what are your thoughts ?.
I guess he should have told them that their descendants would be punished with death as well. In that case the couple could have just chosen to not procreate and the curse would have died with them. Then Jehovah could have gone back to the drawing board and tried again. Why do people have kids when they know that those kids will just suffer and die? Beats me.
(matthew 25:41-46) 41 “then he will say, in turn, to those on his left, ‘be on your way from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 for i became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat, and i got thirsty, but you gave me nothing to drink.
43 i was a stranger, but you did not receive me hospitably; naked, but you did not clothe me; sick and in prison, but you did not look after me.’ 44 then they also will answer with the words, ‘lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?’ 45 then he will answer them with the words, ‘truly i say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’ 46 and these will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”.
Love the picture. Did you deliberately get a guy to sit by the cart or was this just a spontaneous candid photograph?
Individual JWs can be very charitable even to the worldly, but you're right, the organization does zilch in this regard. When I went church hopping I was impressed with how many churches have organized charity drives for the poor and destitute. It made me feel a little less cynical toward Christianity.
this line used by abusive spouses and governing bodies who mandate shunning:.
look what you made me do to you...".
it's got a bit of a history (according to the bible).
The whole dynamic is best embodied in the three stooges: Jehovah is of course Moe, the know-it-all who bosses everyone around and can never be wrong. Satan is Curly, the guy who is always bungling up Moe's plans. Larry is the hapless human race.
So Jehovah sets up a garden and deliberately plants an evil fruit tree that he knows will tempt his creation. Satan then does his job and tempts us with a predictable outcome.
Jehovah: Look what you made me do! *tries to slug Satan but misses and hits Adam*
Adam: Nyuck, nyuck!
would you teach a heaven , hell, jesus , paradise.
what rule structure for discipline ect ,ect,.
I don't thonk I could possibly come up with anything better than Aleister Crowley's law of Thelema:
Man has the right to live by his own law— to live in the way that he wills to do: to work as he will: to play as he will: to rest as he will: to die when and how he will.
Man has the right to eat what he will: to drink what he will: to dwell where he will: to move as he will on the face of the earth.
Man has the right to think what he will: to speak what he will: to write what he will: to draw, paint, carve, etch, mould, build as he will: to dress as he will.
Man has the right to love as he will:…"take your fill and will of love as ye will, when, where, and with whom ye will."
Man has the right to kill those who would thwart these rights.
I would have these words engraved on tablets of granite and every child would hear them sung by their parents before they were old enough to talk. And, of course, it would be understood that by 'Man' is meant all of humanity: every man, woman, boy, girl, and intersexed.
Every religion to date has been about "Do as I wilt." But Crowley said "No, don't do as I wilt, do as THOU wilt! Take responsibility for your own life. Live as a man, not a beast of burden." And of course, most people reacted with horror to such a 'selfish' doctrine. Sheep can't see beyond the whole master-slave dialectic. If you refuse to serve, you must be some sort of usurping tyrant.
i was pondering the recent influx of lawsuits against wt, specifically in regards to the child abuse cases (ie.
conti, fessler, lopez, etc).. in each of these, wt has settled for an "undisclosed" amount, assumed to be in the millions of dollars each.
i know there are many many more cases, subject for a different thread i'm sure.. i was reading something completely unrelated a while back that mentioned the dangers of settlement agreements for a large corporation or business (not just wt).
I find it hard to believe anyone would write that. It's a civil case - it's only about money.
Let me rephrase that: why settle for a civil suit in the first place? The WT didn't spill hot coffee on their victim's crotches, they are fucking criminals who aided and abetted other criminals. This isn't a civil matter, it's a criminal one.
If someone raped me, I wouldn't want their money. I'd want their cock floating in a pickle jar.
i was pondering the recent influx of lawsuits against wt, specifically in regards to the child abuse cases (ie.
conti, fessler, lopez, etc).. in each of these, wt has settled for an "undisclosed" amount, assumed to be in the millions of dollars each.
i know there are many many more cases, subject for a different thread i'm sure.. i was reading something completely unrelated a while back that mentioned the dangers of settlement agreements for a large corporation or business (not just wt).
I think this all turns on terms of the settlement. If the plaintiff gets their money, no strings attached, just so the WT can avoid a lengthy and expensive trial, then I agree that they are destroying themselves in the long run as now any former JW could just say they were abused (even if they weren't) and win a jackpot. But if the WT is exchanging money in return for silence, then they are definitely getting the better end of the deal.
Though I find it hard to believe that any victim would settle for money. If it were me I would want to do the maximum amount of damage to the organization. Money comes and goes, but revenge leaves a sweet taste on the tongue long after it's over.
