Posts by Rainbow

24

I finally get why people like to shun.

by poopie in

jw
friends

it finally hit me today.

why do religions enjoy shunning.

because many people feel like being close to god makes them special however just being special is not enough for many religious people that shun they must feel extra special how?

Rainbow_Troll

sparrowdown: Shunning used as official discipline for breaking the rules is what cults do as part of their information control policy to keep people under the thumb. Deciding personally to not hang out with a certain individual for whatever reason is personal choice.

You hit the nail on the head. After leaving the JWs I took the extreme of being very tolerant towards people, even if they were rude, bigoted or just plain crazy. I didn't want to be like the JWs and shun these people just because they were different or I didn't agree with some of their views.

But obnoxious crazy bigots DO tend to get on one's nerves, so eventually I did start shunning their company and felt the obligatory guilt. It took me a long time to see the distinction between what I was doing and what the JWs had done to me. I wasn't shunning these people because some higher authority commanded me to or I was afraid of the social consequences should anyone see me associating with racists, gay-bashers and religious nuts. Hell no, I didn't give a shit what anyone thought of me! I was shunning these people because they fucking pissed me off virtually EVERY TIME I held a conversation with them! Do you know how infuriating it is trying to reason with a guy who maintains that most gay men are child molesters? I did.

But now I am free and I owe it all to honoring my inner shunner.

27

Jehovah's Witnesses and Love

by Cold Steel in

comments?

stories?

reminiscences?.

Rainbow_Troll

I don't think it's as black and white is all that. Even back when I believed and wasn't just pretending, I loved my friends.

I remember back when I was twelve a friend of mine got in trouble with the elders after his parents found weed in his room. He begged me to somehow prevent my mom from attending the next meeting, as that was when they planned to announce his new status in the congregation. I wasn't able to do that but, miraculously, my mother must not have been paying attention when they made the announcement. Of course, everyone else still knew, but that didn't stop me from associating with him. I had already decided that I would hang out with him until I was personally told not to and, even if that happened, we could still meet in secret.

I still believed in Jehovah at that point and the Bible as well, but as far as I was concerned the shunning policy was just wrong. I might be forced to shun in public, but privately I would associate with whomever I chose and no misguided elder was going to stop me.

31

Why more highly educated people are less into conspiracy theories

by Mickey mouse in

jw
friends

i've seen discussions here about how jehovah's witnesses seem to be prone to believing conspiracy theories... https://digest.bps.org.uk/2017/04/05/why-more-highly-educated-people-are-less-into-conspiracy-theories/.

this last paragraph seems particularly relevant:.

importantly, van prooijen said his findings help make sense of why education can contribute to “a less paranoid society” even when conspiracy theories are not explicitly challenged.

Rainbow_Troll

Caedee: The problem is that historically conspiracies fail, someone always gives the game away in the end. People are very bad at keeping secrets because we are social animals.

This is true. The more people who are supposedly involved in an alleged conspiracy, the less likely it is to be true. It's the private one person conspiracies that are most effective.

So for example I don't believe that Eisenhower knew about Pearl Harbour before the attack because it makes no sense. A thwarted attack would have had the same effect as a successful one.

Londo: Eisenhower wasn't President in 1941. Or perhaps he was...and history has been covered up! :smile:

LOL! You're right. I don't know why I wrote Eisenhower. He was just on my mind for some reason. Regarding FDR's lack of motive for allowing the attacks to happen, I think that a fiery holocaust would have had a much greater emotional punch on people than a thwarted attack. But, whatever his motives may have been, the fact is that America had cracked the Japanese military code without their knowledge and long before Pearl Harbor. Unless the Japanese were super paranoid and never even hinted about the attacks in their communications, people in Washington would have known in advance what they were planning to do. It could have been that FDR simply did not want to risk tipping the Japanese off that their code had been cracked. Pearl Harbor was an acceptable loss if it meant ultimately defeating the Japanese.

TD: The idea that the Holocaust never happened is a conspiracy theory contradicted by a ton of evidence. There is no reasoning with someone who embraces a conspiracy theory, because every single piece of evidence is written off as part of the conspiracy.

The flaw in most holocaust denial arguments comes down to special pleading. They want people to accept their 'evidence', but they simply deny the credibility of any counter evidence. They'll accept the testimony of a few concentration camp inmates that it really wasn't so bad: that the Nazi officers didn't work them too hard and even arranged things like orchestras and talent shows to keep the inmates entertained. Meanwhile, the vast majority of survivors who testify to the cruelty of the Nazis are called liars. It never seems to occur to them that Nazis were just human beings whose behavior could range from nice to nasty and that, for this reason, a concentration camp could easily become a hell on earth if a bad Nazi was in charge. Creationists use the same strategy.

redvip: For example, the folks that believe that the twin towers came down because of explosives in the buildings. This is completely ridiculous. The amount of people required to do this would be massive. No way you can keep that a secret.

Not to mention unnecessary. If some powerful faction in the US government wanted the twin towers to go down all they would have to do would be to wait and let it happen. The 911 hijackers weren't the first people who wanted to blow up the WTC.

31

Why more highly educated people are less into conspiracy theories

by Mickey mouse in

jw
friends

i've seen discussions here about how jehovah's witnesses seem to be prone to believing conspiracy theories... https://digest.bps.org.uk/2017/04/05/why-more-highly-educated-people-are-less-into-conspiracy-theories/.

this last paragraph seems particularly relevant:.

importantly, van prooijen said his findings help make sense of why education can contribute to “a less paranoid society” even when conspiracy theories are not explicitly challenged.

Rainbow_Troll

What bunk!

I personally have never been able to understand why more people aren't at least open to conspiracy theories.

Even in my own day-to-day experience, I have seen many conspiracies play out. Where I used to work employees would conspire against each other all the time. One falsely accused her supervisor of sexual harassment. Another committed vandalism in an effort to frame their coworker so they could get their position. The company's CPA tried to frame me for embezzlement in order to disguise her own habitual thefts. If common people of mediocre ambition would engage in conspiracies, what naive fool doubts that the rich and powerful are involved in much broader and more intricate schemes?

We must also take into account the conspiracy theories that have since been proven to be conspiracy facts. There are too many to list in a single post, but here is a short list in no particular order that anyone can google and verify for themselves:

The assassination of just about every rabble rouser in history from Julius Caesar to Martin Luther King Jr.
The Roman Catholic Church's massive conspiracy to conceal, aid and abbet child molestors within their ranks.
The Bolshevik/Communist conspiracy against the Czar (read 'Catechism of a Revolutionary')
The P2 banking scandal in Italy
President Eisenhower's foreknowledge of the Pearl Harbor attacks.
The US governments Prism spying program recently exposed by Eric Snowden.
The CIA's MKULTRA program.
The CIA instigated coup d'état against Guatemalan president Jacobo Árbenz over some fruit.
The CIA's plot to overthrow president Mossadegh of Iran for daring to nationalize the country's oil. Hell, virtually EVERYTHING the CIA has done in its 69 years of existence would qualify as a conspiracy!

I could go on and fill pages and pages of historically verifiable conspiracies, but I think any educated reader could come up with their own examples. The fact is, no truly educated person - unless history was deliberately omitted from their 'education' - would dismiss a conspiracy theory out of hand. To the contrary, the more educated you are, the more cynical and paranoid you are likely to be.

24

I finally get why people like to shun.

by poopie in

jw
friends

it finally hit me today.

why do religions enjoy shunning.

because many people feel like being close to god makes them special however just being special is not enough for many religious people that shun they must feel extra special how?

Rainbow_Troll

I've only ever shunned people if they have repeatedly made me feel uncomfortable, so it's very hard for me to understand the motives behind what the JWs do other than fear of getting caught and being shunned oneself.

One thing that has always puzzled me is why more JWs don't communicate to their DF'd friends and family in secret. In today's computer saturated environment of anonymous web-based email and PGP encryption, getting away with it would be trivially easy and yet not one of my friends has agreed to communicate with me this way. Are they afraid that Jehovah will tell on them to the elders? I would think that the very naughtiness of such an act would prove attractive and actually deepen friendships on the principle that the relationship has now become totally private instead of being mediated through the bOrg. Also, it would be a way of rebelling against the elders without taking on any real risk.

I guess I just have no grasp of human psychology.

16

JWs - Organ, Tissue and Eye Donation

by darkspilver in

fyi.

saturday 15 april 2017, 4pm to 6pm.

organ, tissue and eye donation.

Rainbow_Troll

Haven't organ transplants been kosher for quite some time now? Or did the GB ban them again? I'm confused.

70

Apologists saying that the JWs shouldn't be banned, what the hell!??

by Crazyguy in

it's been brought to my attention that there are xjw that say they support the witnesses and don't think russia should ban them.

i would just like to remind all of you that jws are guilty of murder, causing higher rates of suicide, covering up child molestation, and keeping members in prisoned because if they leave they loose family, financial support, possible employment etc.. sure their not strapping bombs to their chests but they easily get members to kill themselves with their blood policies.

they are an extremist group!

Rainbow_Troll

I'm not opposed to ridding Russia of the JW religion in principle, but history has born out again and again that banning a religious sect does not weaken it; persecution only fans the flames of fanaticism.

I think the world would be a much better place without drugs like heroin and meth, but I also acknowledge that the war on drugs only makes these substances even deadlier, not less.

Prohibiting beliefs, substances and practices has never succeeded in eliminating these things from society. Laws only succeed in making people into criminals and subsidizing a bloated system of police, courts and prisons.

The first step to eliminating crimes of any kind is to repeal laws. Then, instead of banning the practice outright, the government should instead regulate and tax it.

In relation to the JWs, this would mean that the Russian government would allow the JWs to continue practicing their religion, but their activities would be heavily curtailed . If they wanted to do street preaching they would need to purchase licenses and could only do it in certain places and at certain times. Door-to-door ministry would also require licensing and could only be done from noon until 5pm so as not to disturb residents who are sleeping or eating dinner; all violations would incur severe fines for the congregations involved.

Also, since the watchtower IS an American corporation and not a church proper, it would be subject to the same tax rate that all foreign corporations must pay for doing business in Russia.

Shunning would remain semi-legal (since it would be impossible to regulate), but if the Watchtower DF'd a member for simply speaking to a dissassociated or disfellowshipped individual, the congregation would be fined $1000 USD and might have the preaching licenses of individual members revoked until the DF'd person was reinstated.

Legalize, regulate, tax.

7

What every modern civilized western society needs: "9yo girls 'physically & spiritually' ready to marry" – Malaysian MP

by kpop in

i'm at a loss for words man.

will there be a "woman's march" over this?

will radical 3rd wave feminists come out and demand his resignation?.

Rainbow_Troll

It's nice to see that 9 year olds have finally won the right to marry. Another victory in humanity's march towards equality!

I think by 'rape' they meant 'statutory rape' so if, for example, a man were to have consensual sex with a 12 year old, he would have to marry her. In a culture where female virginity is a prerequisite for marriage, this actually makes a lot of sense. Of course, it would make more sense to have hymens surgically removed shortly after birth, but whatcha gonna do?

And yes, I am trolling you all.

56

"There is evidence of a Creator if you just look for it"

by unsure in

(for the record, i’m agnostic who is earnestly seeking an objective, honest and concrete hope for something greater).

“there is evidence of a creator if you just look for it”.

many of us have heard similar sentences from believers regarding proof of creator, proof that their religion is the correct one, proof that their particular sect is the right one, proof that their individual sects interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one, proof that their own personal interpretation of a certain religious text is the right one; the list goes on.. in one of my previous posts, i shared the following thought of mine:.

Rainbow_Troll

I don't think it's meant to be complicated. If there were a creator deity who wanted us to recognize Its existence and worship It, It would not expect us to search half of our lives or go through intellectual gymnastics to arrive at Its existence. Instead, this deity (if it were rational) would simply create us with an innate belief in a creator deity along with a need to worship It which, coincidentally or not, is exactly the way most people are. The vast majority of human beings on this planet believe in some sort of creator God, whether they are monotheists, polytheists or animists. Atheists may have always existed too, but they have been an extremely small minority until recently.

34

Have You Found Your Place in the World?

by Rainbow_Troll in

we were all told when we were in the watchtower that we should be grateful to be part of such a loving family.

we were told that just beyond the superficial glamour of the world was a quagmire of despair, emptiness and pain waiting to suck us in.

obviously, we took that part with a mountain of salt or we wouldn't be here today.

Rainbow_Troll

PunkofNice, even if there is no life after death everything we do matters because the consequences of what we do today will ripple forth into eternity. If I hurt somebody and they carry that with them for the rest of their life, they will most likely take out their pain on others who will start the cycle anew ad infinitum. This is what Buddha meant when he said that there is the deed, but no doer; we die, but our deed (our karma) lives on for eternity, life after life. But, if I resist the urge to take out my pain on others then that bad karma ends with me and the future will be a little better than the past. BTW, our sun will not go nova for a few billion years yet, plenty of time for humans to get off the planet and find a new sun.

Giordana, that quote from 'The True Believer' really hit home; I see a lot of myself in it. I read that book years ago, but I guess I better read it again. There is definitely an inner fanatic, an imperious puritan in me that sees all pleasure as trivial at best and not worth indulging in. It doesn't help that most of things that normal people take pleasure in (drugs, music, sex, shopping) do little or nothing for me. Maybe I need to learn to enjoy myself in whatever way I can.

As if reality were responding to my last comment about women, I saw a cute girl today with a black bob who was neither overweight or, apparently, a tweaker.

Rainbow_Troll

Posts by Rainbow_Troll