Posts by ThomasMore

134

How far do we get away from 1914

by PimoElder in

how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

ThomasMore

Fisherman,

Actually Watchtower only uses "circa" when referring to when war broke out in heaven and Satan was ousted. They started acknowledging that "about" was better to say when it was pointed out that WW1 started in the Summer of 1914, before their interpretation of October as the end of the gentile times and when Satan was ousted from heaven to the vicinity of the earth. This was a problem so now they just say that war in heaven could have broken out before the gentile times ended, before the Summer when the war broke out. Disconnecting the 2 events helps explain the 6+ months needed for Satan to 'land' on earth and foment enough discord to start a world war.

Nevertheless, most reputable historians say 587 BCE was the actual year of Jerusalem's destruction - not 607 BCE. That would make 1934 the momentous year. But you already know that and have tried unsuccessfully on this forum to redact what you must surely know to be the truth. But you are consistent so there's that...

134

How far do we get away from 1914

by PimoElder in

how far do we get away from 1914 before they have a new light and admit it was all wrong?.

they cling to the old theory of the 77 week prophecy from the wrong date that jerusalem was destroyed .

with the overlapping generations nonsense still we are getting too far away from 1914. what will they say if we get to the 2030s and they still cling to 1914?.

ThomasMore

Terry, I think you meant Jonah.

As for JW's they have painted themselves into a rather tight corner with the 1914 teaching and the peripheral doctrines associated with that year. As an end times religion, they need something to happen but if it doesn't, they are flexible enough to come up with another shiny teaching to substitute. The rank & file will accept it too. Why?

Because the rank & file need something to believe in, even if it is nonsense. The type of people that follow this religion need to believe that the end is near and could come in their lifetime. They don't need scriptural-based teachings - they need hope that something will save them from this miserable life that they are leading.

This is why they seldom respond to well-thought out reasonings about their non-sensical teachings. Trying to convince them otherwise is usually an exercise in futility. After many decades of service and living through pretty radical changes, I am convinced that most JWs don't care. If they cease to teach all the nonsense of even add to it, many JWs will still follow them and send them money. Some will leave but most will not. It is sad - yes?

12

Pandemic as part of Bible prophecy?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

i was thinking that since russell started the movement in 1879 which became jehovah's witnesses in 1931 never has there been a period in time when all their activities just - stopped.

especially the preaching work.. do you think they will find some obscure verse in daniel that talks about this period of time and try to make a greater fulfillment?

like the 70 weeks of years or the 42 months?

ThomasMore

Disillusioned JW - " They also have stopped sharply directly criticizing the United Nations organization".

They stopped doing this during the time that they were an NGO of the UN during the 1990's as well. They are now a member of the European sister organization of the UN, and I suspect that they are once again an NGO of the UN under a name that would not be associated with Watchtower. You will recall that they only withdrew when The Guardian exposed their membership. It would be uncharacteristic for WTS to be pressured to do something they don't want to do. Ex. - They only joined the Australian redress scheme when they were losing their charity status. Even now, most congregations in Australia are unaware that they are on the hook for compensating victims. Please correct me if I am wrong, but only the COBEs were instructed to obligate the congregations for the compensation.

26

Rutherford and dinosaurs

by jhine in

sorry if this has been discussed before but on quora someone asked if rutherford had said that dinosaurs had been taken to venus .

i assume that the questioner had heard it somewhere and wanted to check it out.

i've never come across this before is it true ?

ThomasMore

The Awake! was discontinued for economic reasons as well as lack of credibility. If you knew some of the editors, you would understand how such outrageous info worked its way onto the pages. There was seldom an honest attempt to prove anything that was written. And why should there be? If anyone disagreed, they would be pounded down like a protruding nail. Put simply, the magazine ceased to be taken seriously and the GB knew it. In like manner, the 192 page books have been phased out as many of their assertions were ludicrous.

85

My Letter to Brooklyn about the Parousia that got me disfellowshipped

by cofty in

this is the letter i wrote back in '96 about the parousia.

following the '95 watchtower that disconnected the "generation" from 1914 i began to look carefully at end-time prophecy and soon discovered what i knew were basic errors in what i had been taught.. i was a loyal jw at the time and was still serving as an elder.

i used only watchtower publications in my research.

ThomasMore

I recall a young man who questioned the religious leaders that had some authority over him. In fact, his reasonings had so much logic, and authority, that they framed him and as you know - they had him put to death.

Cofty, you discovered that if you disagree with them, you must be killed by them, like the High Priest had Jesus killed. If the GB could have had you executed, they would have. Thank God for the secular authorities who place limits on what they can do.

As for sorting out the spaghetti of how WTS interprets (yes, they do interpret, not just explain), it is a fools' errand to throw your pearls before them because:

1) They are incapable of recognizing the truth.

2) They lack the humility to benefit from the truth if it means that they must readjust their viewpoint and admit that someone else understands Gods Word more than they do.

When a sincere person reads the Bible with the genuine intention of understanding it, he/she quickly arrives at different conclusions than WTS. What should they do? Continue to read and let God guide their thinking and their hearts. Separating from JWs is not easy but necessary to please God if that is the intention.

61

Elders hounding members to quit their jobs due to missing too many meetings

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

how many times did you see elders hounding congregation members to quit their jobs due to missing meetings?.

my brother worked at a grocery store at 16 years old.

he would miss tuesday's ministry school due to his work schedule.

ThomasMore

The WTS has been aware of the dilemma they create for the ranf & file. A GB member once said "we need to help some here at Bethel to find an exit door and a place to land". He knew that there would be few opportunities for untrained people in this world, Today, Bethel still kicks older ones out before they reach 62, even after decades of service.

It is hard to put a pretty face on what they do. I believe that it bothers some in the leadership, but they won't speak out due to the consequences.

My parents never encouraged college but I went and thank goodness I did! The price was years of ostracism in the congregation, but like Long Hair Gal, it paid off with a reasonable retirement. It is frustrating to see so many lose opportunities as they follow the unrealistic commands of the religion.

14

Fancy dress parties banned...anyone else?

by Witness 007 in

we had 2 fancy dress parties in our congregation...before the ban.

it was the best fun we ever had together.

problem was some came as pirates with swords!

ThomasMore

They drink - at home.

12

Mark Noumair latest video on persecution on jw.org

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/tbbxaasj6ki.

ThomasMore

Persecution for JWs is usually a self-fulfilling prophecy. It is just one of their certified means of claiming that they are the true religion. They fail to mention that other religions have been persecuted also. Historically, Rutherford exhaustively tried to provoke authorities against the IBSA (later JWs) so that he could get court time. This worked in their favor then since they had little to lose, but times have changed. A modern day court could strike down the privilege of door to door witnessing so WTS treads lightly on that issue. They are no longer doing Door To Door witnessing but the letter writing and telephone calls continue for now (even though they are not effective).

As a youth, I bought into persecution as a litmus test, but soon realized that we were provoking rather than being targeted. I often feel guilty when I remember the general attitude we had as we looked down on those we preached at - not to.

It makes me sad to think of the lives that have been squandered pursuing this form of religion. How many brilliant minds were herded into menial jobs instead reaching the potential they might have otherwise with some mentoring? I still remember the pride we took when others ridiculed us in the ministry while deep down, I wondered sincerely if we really were smart enough to see the TRUTH when others could not.

7

Before his BROTHER's sentencing...

by Newly Enlightened in

we talk to kevin penkava.

https://youtu.be/u_os4qs9oh4.

ThomasMore

The sentence was predictable. Both men were elderly and not worth the potential PR problem of poor health in prison. The real target is the attorney at Patterson who provided the bad legal advice. I suspect that the state will want his head on a platter. It will be a miracle if he doesn't get dis-barred.

That would send a serious message to Watchtower that the game is up. As for elders who are still gullible enough to think that the Branch offers sound legal advice, they should be planning on how to defy bad direction without getting deleted. A criminal record is a tough thing for someone young who may still need to keep a job, apply for jobs, get mortgages etc. That's right elders who still serve - you could be next...

17

Adam & Eve: Perfect but not everlasting life?

by pixel in

so i was watching annual meeting.

towards the end of jackson’s talk, he says: .

“perfection doesn’t automatically means someone will get everlasting life.

ThomasMore

Adam and Eve were evicted for disobedience, not lying. When the serpent drew Eve into conversation by falsely remarking to Eve that perhaps God was not permitting them to eat from all the trees of the garden, she rushed to God’s defense by saying that “from all the trees we may eat except for the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Bad”.

Question solved - they had access to the tree of Life and no doubt ate from it since it signified Gods pleasure with them.

After they sinned, they were disallowed from eating of that tree again because it would have signified forgiveness, something God was not willing to extend.

Whether or not one takes the account literally, this is a simple matter to comprehend if one reads it as written.