why do you think many jws are hostile and rude?
or is that just my imagination?.
mark jones writes: the vast majority of jehovah’s witnesses are nice people.
PeacefulPete - you cut me to the core. My comments about seeing things in B&W and deciding that JWs are not good people may very well make them feel unwelcome. That was not the intention but probably was the truth.
So, I apologize to any PIMI JWs who were offended. You are welcome here and I should have been more civil and I wish you the best in your quest for truth. I truly believe that you can find it in large quantity on this forum.
mark jones, a witness for over 30 years describes what jws call bible studies offered to the public.. .
"they (jehovah's witnesses) offer you a free home “bible” study - which turns out to be a study of a watchtower publication with the bible brought out as an afterthought to try and prop up whatever current idea the governing body are claiming is “the truth” this week.. i think it’s underhanded.. when my parents became jehovah’s witnesses and they offered people a free home “bible” study, this is what they brought to study with them:.
what, did you think they were going to study the bible with you?.
Blotty,
I have explored some of the "other" websites that offer to teach the Bible. They never tried to rope me in so that would become a donating member (at least not the ones I explored).
When WTC offers to teach you the Bible, they want you contacted by a congregation, who then tries to persuade you to come the the KH. Soon they are counting you as a member of some variety and expecting you to donate. If you chafe at getting baptized past their grace period, the criticism starts. If you get baptized, you are expected to compete on the hamster wheel. If you try to leave, the rumor mill demonizes you. Shunning follows.
You said " I think the hate the Watchtower gets is woefully unjustified in many respects".
I think WTC does not get its fair share of criticism.
mark jones, a witness for over 30 years describes what jws call bible studies offered to the public.. .
"they (jehovah's witnesses) offer you a free home “bible” study - which turns out to be a study of a watchtower publication with the bible brought out as an afterthought to try and prop up whatever current idea the governing body are claiming is “the truth” this week.. i think it’s underhanded.. when my parents became jehovah’s witnesses and they offered people a free home “bible” study, this is what they brought to study with them:.
what, did you think they were going to study the bible with you?.
I once suggested that it should be OK to conduct a Bible study using just the Bible. I was immediately told that was apostate thinking. Who knew? I certainly didn't. MESSAGE: Don't read the Bible and certainly don't encourage others to do that.
I asked why the message was painted on the side of the factory building so that 100's of thousands of people saw it each day? Not much of an answer was given - in fact no answer was given. It sounded like noble direction but it was removed when WTC sold the buildings. They certainly did not paint it on the side of the building at Warwick. I believe that they were finally glad to get rid of it altogether.
WTC produces a Bible that is word-smithed to be like 2 synchronized swimmers. One repeats their narrative and the other seems to agree in unison. Just don't encourage anyone to study it without the 'steadying influence' of their narrative publication or you will be labeled an APOSTATE.
Don't believe me? Ask some who tried.
i wonder how many jws will squirm watching the upcoming 3rd season of mandalorian in which out of compassion he was obliged to break certain rules of his religion and is now labeled an apostate.
awkward!.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ye7fue220.
I recall that in an episode.
I also recall Peter denying Jesus 3 times but he was never labeled an apostate. With JWs, they throw the word around like a baseball.
the law of diminishing returns states: the law of diminishing returns is an economic principle stating that as investment in a particular area increases, the rate of profit from that investment, after a certain point, cannot continue to increase if other variables remain at a constant.
as investment continues past that point, the return diminishes progressively.. from 1900 through the 1980s, the more witnesses that got baptized and pioneered, the more bible studies that could be had and the more additional witnesses that could join and then congregations would get bigger and they would divide and form in other areas.
but in the 1990s the law of diminishing returns kicked in, particularly in the bigger cities.
PP - I suspect you are right but the JWs probably will soon be less than a footnote at the rate they are hemorrhaging members (and by that I mean countable bodies at KHs). Probably it is death by a thousand cuts, but the internet gets special mention for their woes. Finally the pandemic arrived and gave many chained-up members the time away necessary to wake them up - THEY WERE FREE! And they liked it.
I see photos of congregations in session and most have less than 20 people. There may be some on Zoom but they are NOT at the KH. Some will argue that they are growing, but they clearly are not. Numbers can be manipulated (remember Enron?), but photos and reports of empty congregation meetings tell the real story.
why do jehovah’s witnesses say they are god’s organization so matter of factly as though such an audacious claim is an undisputable fact?
here is how one person sees this claim.. "the entire jehovah’s witness religion is founded on unsubstantiated hubristic claims which are continually repeated until they are assumed by adherents to be a proven fact.. never is this more evident than when the beliefs of a jehovah’s witness are successfully challenged.
the more compelling the evidence against them, the more they resort to repeating their convictions with a sense of insistence, as if they are chanting a mantra.. confirmation bias is prevalent in all religious ideologies, but particularly with jehovah’s witnesses.
Vanderhoven - your friend woke up with a full omelet but probably did not realize it was mostly a baloney omelet. Today, JWs still dance around their false prophecies. 1975 is just the tip of the iceberg.
LongHair Gal - you are right. JWs have a disproportionate number of low income members. As you pointed out, it is because of their distaste for higher education (and education in general). The real problem is that they STILL think that they are smarter than everyone else.
Jesus disciples were unlettered and ordinary but they did not arrogantly act as if it made them better. Paul and Luke were probably a rarity among the early Christians as well. Nevertheless, I read of no organized effort to keep people stupid like WTC advances today.
take for example revelation 21: 10. .
“….and he showed me the holy city jerusalem coming down out of heaven from god.
here john sees something happening, action.
I cannot believe anyone could draw the conclusion that WTC did about Jesus' second coming. It's an embarassing yoga contortion explanation if there ever was one.
i just read about a disfellowshipped person who was looking for other disfellowshipped persons to socialize with.
what does the org have to say about this?.
We were hearing a reinstatement request when one of the committee said that we could not because the person was associating with another DF'd person in the cong. I had no problem with it, but I did agree that if that person was reinstated, then communication would have to cease and that would be cruel. As I recall, the C.O. felt that DF'd persons should have NO ASSOCIATION WITH ANYONE. That seemed particularly cruel to me!
That's when I started chafing at the practice altogether. It was unncessary and extremely cruel. I would venture to say that JW's probably DF more people in one year than the Catholic church has excommunicated in the past 4 centuries. Let me know if I am wrong.
why do you think many jws are hostile and rude?
or is that just my imagination?.
mark jones writes: the vast majority of jehovah’s witnesses are nice people.
I hate to view things in a black and white manner but the heartless indifference that most JWs have toward victims of pedophilia (by pedos that are JWs!!!) tells me that they are not good people. I won'tt associate with them. This is a black and white line for me. Cross that line and I will cease to be accepting or tolerant.
I recall a pedo that we DF'd. In a short time, another cong wanted to reinstate him. I had to tell the elder who wanted him back in just what he had done. It didn't phase him. I decided that many were simply monsters that I could never ever respect again. I left. I am happy. Now I view their shunning as a gift to me.
in the november 2022 study watchtower, "jehovah's organization" (or variants) is repeated at least 37 times.. the word 'organization' - like 'governing body,' 'trinity,' hell-fire,' & 'immortal soul,' - doesn't exist in the holy scriptures.. interestingly, jesus christ is mentioned only twice in all of the study articles - as an aside..
As a child, I asked my PIMI dad elder why we didn't talk very much about Jesus. Years later WTC released the Greates Man book. It seemed like a genuine effort to bring Jesus back into the lexicon. It was short-lived and he is back on the sidelines. Why?
I suppose that his teachings were an indictment of what WTC was doing. The more we heard about Jesus, the more unfavorable WTC was in my mind. I could be wrong - but that is how I felt as a young person.
