Posts by ThomasMore

7

The Mandalorian is an Apostate

by neat blue dog in

i wonder how many jws will squirm watching the upcoming 3rd season of mandalorian in which out of compassion he was obliged to break certain rules of his religion and is now labeled an apostate.

awkward!.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ye7fue220.

ThomasMore

I recall that in an episode.

I also recall Peter denying Jesus 3 times but he was never labeled an apostate. With JWs, they throw the word around like a baseball.

10

the law of diminishing returns states: the law of diminishing returns is an economic principle stating that as investment in a particular area increases, the rate of profit from that investment, after a certain point, cannot continue to increase if other variables remain at a constant.

as investment continues past that point, the return diminishes progressively.. from 1900 through the 1980s, the more witnesses that got baptized and pioneered, the more bible studies that could be had and the more additional witnesses that could join and then congregations would get bigger and they would divide and form in other areas.

but in the 1990s the law of diminishing returns kicked in, particularly in the bigger cities.

ThomasMore

PP - I suspect you are right but the JWs probably will soon be less than a footnote at the rate they are hemorrhaging members (and by that I mean countable bodies at KHs). Probably it is death by a thousand cuts, but the internet gets special mention for their woes. Finally the pandemic arrived and gave many chained-up members the time away necessary to wake them up - THEY WERE FREE! And they liked it.

I see photos of congregations in session and most have less than 20 people. There may be some on Zoom but they are NOT at the KH. Some will argue that they are growing, but they clearly are not. Numbers can be manipulated (remember Enron?), but photos and reports of empty congregation meetings tell the real story.

18

Does Jehovah have a visible organization?

by Vanderhoven7 in

why do jehovah’s witnesses say they are god’s organization so matter of factly as though such an audacious claim is an undisputable fact?

here is how one person sees this claim.. "the entire jehovah’s witness religion is founded on unsubstantiated hubristic claims which are continually repeated until they are assumed by adherents to be a proven fact.. never is this more evident than when the beliefs of a jehovah’s witness are successfully challenged.

the more compelling the evidence against them, the more they resort to repeating their convictions with a sense of insistence, as if they are chanting a mantra.. confirmation bias is prevalent in all religious ideologies, but particularly with jehovah’s witnesses.

ThomasMore

Vanderhoven - your friend woke up with a full omelet but probably did not realize it was mostly a baloney omelet. Today, JWs still dance around their false prophecies. 1975 is just the tip of the iceberg.

LongHair Gal - you are right. JWs have a disproportionate number of low income members. As you pointed out, it is because of their distaste for higher education (and education in general). The real problem is that they STILL think that they are smarter than everyone else.

Jesus disciples were unlettered and ordinary but they did not arrogantly act as if it made them better. Paul and Luke were probably a rarity among the early Christians as well. Nevertheless, I read of no organized effort to keep people stupid like WTC advances today.

69

Did Jesus COME with the clouds of heaven in 1914?

by Fisherman in

take for example revelation 21: 10. .

“….and he showed me the holy city jerusalem coming down out of heaven from god.

here john sees something happening, action.

ThomasMore

I cannot believe anyone could draw the conclusion that WTC did about Jesus' second coming. It's an embarassing yoga contortion explanation if there ever was one.

19

Are Jehovah's Witnesses who are disfellowshipped allowed to communicate and comfort each other while waiting to be reinstated?

by Vanderhoven7 in

i just read about a disfellowshipped person who was looking for other disfellowshipped persons to socialize with.

what does the org have to say about this?.

ThomasMore

We were hearing a reinstatement request when one of the committee said that we could not because the person was associating with another DF'd person in the cong. I had no problem with it, but I did agree that if that person was reinstated, then communication would have to cease and that would be cruel. As I recall, the C.O. felt that DF'd persons should have NO ASSOCIATION WITH ANYONE. That seemed particularly cruel to me!

That's when I started chafing at the practice altogether. It was unncessary and extremely cruel. I would venture to say that JW's probably DF more people in one year than the Catholic church has excommunicated in the past 4 centuries. Let me know if I am wrong.

61

Why are so many Jehovah’s Witnesses Angry and Rude?

by Vanderhoven7 in

why do you think many jws are hostile and rude?

or is that just my imagination?.

mark jones writes: the vast majority of jehovah’s witnesses are nice people.

ThomasMore

I hate to view things in a black and white manner but the heartless indifference that most JWs have toward victims of pedophilia (by pedos that are JWs!!!) tells me that they are not good people. I won'tt associate with them. This is a black and white line for me. Cross that line and I will cease to be accepting or tolerant.

I recall a pedo that we DF'd. In a short time, another cong wanted to reinstate him. I had to tell the elder who wanted him back in just what he had done. It didn't phase him. I decided that many were simply monsters that I could never ever respect again. I left. I am happy. Now I view their shunning as a gift to me.

9

For JW's, the 'ORG' is more important than Jesus Christ

by BoogerMan in

in the november 2022 study watchtower, "jehovah's organization" (or variants) is repeated at least 37 times.. the word 'organization' - like 'governing body,' 'trinity,' hell-fire,' & 'immortal soul,' - doesn't exist in the holy scriptures.. interestingly, jesus christ is mentioned only twice in all of the study articles - as an aside..

ThomasMore

As a child, I asked my PIMI dad elder why we didn't talk very much about Jesus. Years later WTC released the Greates Man book. It seemed like a genuine effort to bring Jesus back into the lexicon. It was short-lived and he is back on the sidelines. Why?

I suppose that his teachings were an indictment of what WTC was doing. The more we heard about Jesus, the more unfavorable WTC was in my mind. I could be wrong - but that is how I felt as a young person.

46

Bible MIRACLEs!! Are they a Myth or Emeth?

by Fisherman in

the bible records miracles such as resurrections, angels, prophecy and destructive acts of god to mention a few.

are these all a pack of lies?

how do you explain them?

ThomasMore

Cofty, I will be selling everything I own and donating to Shirdi Sai Baba soon. Thanks for sharing!

On a serious note, I find that some scriptures are probably taken literally when they were simply passed down folklore. I recall Bethelites reciting old folklore as if it was established fact - I was soooooo embarassed for them.

Speakers did the same thing from the platform. I usually took the time to kindly tell them that some of their stories were folklore, regurgitated by the unwitting. (Ex. "KISS" was an acronym for Knights in Satan's Service). And many more!!!!!

Most of the jews never considered the Book of Jonah to be taken literal. It was considered a moral lesson (and a good one I think) and that was it's purpose.

The dating of the flood: I don't think there is evidence for a global flood, but if there is, it almost certainly did not happen in the timeframe of Bible chronology. If it did, the Egyptians (and others) built right through that epoch disaster. They were either very dedicated workers or the flood never happened or it was regional and embellished considerably.

The age of man: 6000 years ago, some civilizations were already declining and being replaced. Go visit Göbekli Tepe. It is a Neolithic archaeological site in the Southeastern Anatolia Region of Turkey. Dated to the Pre-Pottery Neolithic, between c. 9500 and 8000 BCE.

It is wise to use discernment when reading anything "ancient". Truth may be sprinkled within its lore, but there are few instances of 100% accuracy. Humans know that age can cover a multitude of fact checking - just look at WTC amending old publications!

Yes - I STILL RESPECT THE BIBLE. But I will not trivialize the message by distorting the intended meaning behind certain passages.

2

Active JWs making 'bad' movies

by neat blue dog in

anybody seen the made for streaming movies "the stepmother" 1 & 2?

-- written and directed by chris stokes & co-written and starring marquis houston, both of whom are active jws, posting about going door to door preaching, putting jehovah first, yada yada.

and yet the movies have bloody violence, simulated rape, the female costar's chest hanging out the whole time & marquis even kisses her in the film even though he's married to a jw in real life (who's 19 years younger and came of age just in time to marry him).

ThomasMore

Ramapo may proceed if WTC ever gets construction permits - this still looks like a long shot but it could happen.

If no permits are given, it will still be a WIN for WTC. They have gotten a fair amount of donations from PIMIs who want to be in the movie-making business. These will be pocketed by WTC and a good meal will be enjoyed with fine wine.

I am well aware of the many bait and switches conducted by WTC. They practice them as an art form.

3

I wonder what the real JW attendance percentages would be?

by LostintheFog1999 in

most churches in the usa are in decline according to pew research.. i wonder what the real jw attendance percentages would be?

mind you from what i hear there's still a lot of them attending meetings on zoom.. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jan/22/us-churches-closing-religion-covid-christianity?.

.

ThomasMore

I recall when we were busting at the seams and many hours were spent discussiong whether we could alleviate the over-crowding by adding a 5th cong. We also had 2 groups - it was just out of the question. We decided to organize a new build with nearby congs. That never happened. We started losing attendees and soon the Branch took all our collective money. Attendance dropped off dramatically and now 3 congs occupy the KH with no groups. Attendance is so low that they could consolidate all into one cong and still have empty seats.

Does anyone actually buy the lie that JWs are having growth?

Some point to secular surveys. I find that those surveys cannot accurately measure the state of WTC because:

1. Inactive JWs often report that their affiliation is still JW, even if they have not attended in many years

2. The way surveys are conducted, even if they are quantitative with >20,000 participants, these only include a small number of JWs, who represent a miniscule percentage of the total population. These surveys might be more accurate larger religions (Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterian, Islam etc) and for geographically centeralized faiths (Mormons), but they have a HUGE marging of error for smaller religions.

It is a considerable challenge to count members of a faith unless you are the leaders of the religion and report honestly. Does that sound like WTC?

Anecdotally, when I see photos from Cong meetings, there are very few seats with warm bodies. Common sense tells us that JWs are in steep decline. Photos, closures, sold KHs, closed branches, canceled construction projects, down-scaled projects also reflect the shrinkage of the org.