Oh and by the way, the WTS might be saying that they don't want Elders™ to use guilt trips or pressure tactics on JWs, because the WTS already has the market cornered on that.
Posts by Scully
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13JW Articles Loaded with Intentional Imbedded Misleading Clauses...
by freemindfade inthis makes me fume while i sit listening to this at the sunday beeting.... "hence, an elder who is tenderly compassionate does not try to control the sheep, making rules or using guilt to pressure them to do more when their circumstances do not permit them to.-w15 2/15 pp.
5-9. now this sentence makes the elders sound like they should not control, use guilt to pressure etc... but then it has a qualifying statement no one seems to hear.
when their circumstances do no permit them to.
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JW Articles Loaded with Intentional Imbedded Misleading Clauses...
by freemindfade inthis makes me fume while i sit listening to this at the sunday beeting.... "hence, an elder who is tenderly compassionate does not try to control the sheep, making rules or using guilt to pressure them to do more when their circumstances do not permit them to.-w15 2/15 pp.
5-9. now this sentence makes the elders sound like they should not control, use guilt to pressure etc... but then it has a qualifying statement no one seems to hear.
when their circumstances do no permit them to.
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Scully
It points very clearly to a fundamental problem among the JWs: they do NOT know the circumstances of their fellow JWs all that well. They don't have time because they are too focused on their own Meeting Attendance™ and getting their Personal Study™ done and making sure their own Field Service™ hours are up to expectations. Socializing is not actively encouraged by the WTS, so that strong friendships are forged, but rather superficial JW-centric acquaintances.
Have you ever noticed that once someone moves away from the Congregation™, that very soon they are forgotten? That phone calls dwindle off, and visiting is confined to superficial chatter at Circuit Assemblies™ and District Conventions™. If I had a dollar for every time a former JW Friend™ told me they missed me, but they've been far Too Busy In the Truth™ to call, I'd have about $250.
How on earth is anyone able to have the kind of knowledge about others necessary to know what their "circumstances permit" without opportunities for and encouragement of the kind of social activities that promote strong bonds with others?
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Why attack?
by newqatarjob inas someone brought up as a jw and been an elder and been disfellowshipped (twice!!!
) i find it difficult to understand why ex jws have to attack the religion, yes religion, not cult or sect.
i am no longer disfellowshipped just do not want to practice anymore.
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Scully
newqatarjob:
Why attack, indeed? Does the WTS hold back from its criticism of other belief systems, most notably the Catholic Church, including policies (such as aiding and abetting pedophile priests by moving them to other parishes rather than removing them from office) that are just plain wrong? They don't, do they? And I don't think they're wrong in doing so, except for the fact that their own egregious errors and massively poor judgement don't exactly recommend them highly as an organization so squeaky clean that it is above similar reproach.
Are we, as exJWs, guilty of Persecution™ when we criticize the WTS? I don't think so. The fact that they criticize other religions makes them fair game actually. What was it that Jesus said?
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." - Matthew 7:1-5
And look at this excerpt from the WTS itself:
It is not persecution for an informed person to expose a certain religion as being false. - WT 11/15/63
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How Radicalised are Jehovah's Witnesses?
by snugglebunny inback in the early 70's, the wt stated that all persons who had lived and died would be resurrected after armageddon.
only non believers would be killed at armageddon, never to return.
in short, if you died before the big a, you were guaranteed to return.. this gave rise amongst several ex's to concerns that their well-meaning jw parents might just consider the possibilty of having their offspring "lovingly" bumped off so as to ensure their resurrection!.
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Scully
I have wondered for the past 20 years or so whether the WTS would ever cross the line. This was published in the Watchtower in 1957:
*** Nov 15, 1952 Watchtower ***
We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. "Thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him to death with stones, because he hath sought to draw thee away from Jehovah thy God, . . . And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee."-Deut. 13:6-11, AS.
Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God's law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship.
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Yes, I do feel that the day may come when the WTS will "suggest" that the time has come for True Christians™ to act out their Theocratic™ fantasies of wiping out Apostates™. It wouldn't take much. They've already laid the groundwork by saying that they were going to tell JWs to do things that they may not understand or find hard to accept. The WTS already expect JWs to allow beloved spouses, children and other family members to die for lack of blood transfusions. That, in itself, is beyond comprehension and hard to accept because it is a passive form of homicide. Yet, when faced with this Test of Integrity™ how many JWs have gone along with it? It would be exactly the same with active forms of homicide. All the WTS has to do is say it is a Test of Integrity™ or a Test of Loyalty™, and there would be lots of JWs who would be more than willing to comply.
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All Gays Are Perverts
by Coded Logic in"scientists may never resolve exactly how much of a role nature and nurturing play in same-sex attraction.
but one thing is clear: all humans are born with the tendency to succumb to wrong thinking and inclinations.
--romans 3:23. a youth who desires to please god must therefore conform to his moral standards and shun immoral behavior, though doing so may be agonizingly difficult.
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Scully
Little Rock Guy wrote:
I don't know of any straight people who have left the organization due to religion's view on the gay issue since most people do not leave the religion unless it is something that effects them personally.
To be fair, the WTS's position on homosexuality was not the only thing that caused me to leave the JWs, but I had a problem with their position and it was among many other things that, in their totality, made me realize the WTS was full of crap.
I'd watched a documentary that claimed that there were differences in brain structure between straight males and gay males. It made me start wondering, What if being gay is not a choice? I started asking JW family members about scenarios such as What if a person believes that they are gay, that they've always felt attraction to people of the same sex, and that they were born that way, the same way people are born with a certain eye colour? If they chose to live a life of abstinence in order to remain faithful to Biblical commands, would they be allowed to Pioneer™ or have other Privileges™ in the Congregation™? More often than not, the answer was NO. They rationalized that merely believing that they were born gay was wrong, and they had to live the life of a straight person (get married, procreate) in order to "prove" they were living in harmony with the Bible.
It started me thinking that it was so wrong to compel someone to live in a way that was repugnant to them, to live a lie and to intentionally bring others into that fraudulent life. I couldn't, for the life of me, reconcile that with a god of love, or even imagine that a loving god would expect that of someone. Even the Apostle Paul recommended singleness as a way of life, but why force someone to marry in order to prove that they've 'overcome' their sexuality, when it is how they are born rather than simply a choice? Do we ask people to change the colour of their eyes or skin? Or change their height? It made me very angry to imagine a life like that.
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Those darned apostates
by berrygerry injuly 15, 1992 wt.
"apostates capitalize on errors or seeming mistakes made by brothers who take the lead.
our safety lies in avoiding apostate propaganda as though it were poison, which in fact it is.".
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Scully
Original quote:
"Apostates capitalize on errors or seeming mistakes made by brothers who take the lead. Our safety lies in avoiding apostate propaganda as though it were poison, which in fact it is."
Now, let's tweak it a bit:
"Jehovah's Witnesses capitalize on errors or seeming mistakes made by theologians and priests who take the lead. Our safety lies in avoiding Jehovah's Witness propaganda as though it were poison, which in fact it is."
When you look at it through a different lens, you know that the JWs would take such a statement by the Catholic Church as Persecution™, when, in fact, it is merely legitimate criticism. The WTS has no qualms about criticizing other faiths, and it shouldn't expect a pass when their own errors or mistakes are exposed. It's not propaganda. It's not Persecution™. It's legitimate criticism as well as exposing errors, lies and confabulations. Any belief system that holds itself up as the sole source of The Truth™ should welcome the opportunity to correct any errors rather than attack the exposure of errors as forming part of an Apostate™ agenda.
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this scared the heck out of me
by Curious Kitten inhas anyone ever read this book ???
jehovah is mentioned at the very bottom supposedly he is a reptilian god (demon) that resides on jupiter ?
wth.
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Scully
Oh boy. David Icke has to be one of the biggest nutjobs on the planet. Right up there with Georgio of Ancient Aliens ilk.
I would read/watch these guys solely for entertainment purposes, because that's about all they're good for... a laugh.
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IMPORTANT NEWS: ABC News' Nightline will air a segment about the Watchtower (JWs) Wednesday morning at 12:35 a.m. EST
by AndersonsInfo inimportant news:.
here in the united states, on wednesday morning, march 11th at 12:35 a.m., est, barring any breaking news the day before, the program, nightline, will air as their lead story a 9-minute segment about the watchtower (jehovah's witnesses).
the program is 30 minutes long and this segment is only one part of the show.
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Scully
Thanks violias. I'll check my local listings and set my PVR accordingly. -
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IMPORTANT NEWS: ABC News' Nightline will air a segment about the Watchtower (JWs) Wednesday morning at 12:35 a.m. EST
by AndersonsInfo inimportant news:.
here in the united states, on wednesday morning, march 11th at 12:35 a.m., est, barring any breaking news the day before, the program, nightline, will air as their lead story a 9-minute segment about the watchtower (jehovah's witnesses).
the program is 30 minutes long and this segment is only one part of the show.
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Scully
Barb,
Would you kindly clarify regarding the time, since most of North America switched to Daylight Savings Time this Sunday just past, and you posted the time as Standard Time.
I don't want to miss the broadcast, and I'm sure nobody else wants to miss it either.
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WTBS Canada received almost $9 million from cong. donations in 2013
by Richard_I injust saw this on the ex-jw subreddit.
on opencharity.ca, you can view wtbs canada's financial info and in 2013 they received almost $9 million in donations.
you can even see how much some congregations gave.
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Scully
WTF!
united way of greater Toronto gave the branch $14909 last year?
When I was employed at an organization that participated in the United Way's donation campaigns, I was given a form that allowed me to identify a charitable organization of my choosing to which my donations would be directed - any Canadian charitable organization qualified.
Funny how the WTS has no qualms about taking money from an organization like United Way. They certainly discourage JWs from donating to them. I suppose they object to these organizations taking a cut toward administration of the funds before it gets to them.