Posts by jwundubbed

52

JWR usernames list

by StarryNight9 in

jw
friends

i created this thread so that jwr members can list their old jwr username with their username for whatever site they've moved to.

i apologize if this has already been created somewhere else.. jwr = starrynight.

jwd = starrynight9.

the watchtower has always been deceptive in that it kinda says what sounds right - but what it really means is obvious to the rank and file.like in the x-files when the gov keeping "plausible denial" at all times.. this month highlights an article to help parents - "teaching children to obey".. https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/g201505/teach-children-obedience-bible/.

first off that phrase offends me - i know the wt feels children are "arrows" for fathers to aim, and not people who are to be nurtured to become their own unique person making choices that are right for them when they mature.

and - they love the word obey!

jwundubbed

Violence is never appropriate in any household.
Hitting kids is not discipline.

I don't mean to be annoying or offensive but your words are just as unclear as the ones you are pointing out from the Watchtower. You have effectively equated 'hitting' with violence. What do you mean by 'hitting'? Slapping a wrist, spanking a bottom, slapping with an open hand, slapping a face with an open hand, punching with a closed fist. These are all examples that can be considered 'hitting'. Each and every one of these things can be violent or non-violent. It all depends on the ability of the person doing the hitting, the emotion they are doing the hitting with, the purpose of hitting, how forceful they are at hitting, and the intention behind their hitting. Karate can be violent or it can be a disciplined activity. I once hauled back and hit my elder sister across her chin with my closed fist. I intended violence but my ability was laughable. And she did. She laughed right in my face at my pathetic attempt. It was so frustrating. Then there is my mother who was a firm believer in humiliation and pain through spankings, many of which were done in the back of a Kingdom Hall. She hit in anger, she hit to hurt, and she hit to humiliate.

But spanking is not always done violently nor out of anger. And in point of fact some hitting is discipline. If you smack a child's hand to keep them from touching the hot stove you have given them proof that pain is what they get for trying while at the same time you have kept them from being hurt and harmed even more by the hot stove. Not all hitting is bad. Sometimes it can be discipline but the intent has to be to teach and to guide so that children can then make wiser choices on their own.

Jehovah's witnesses are intent on mindless control, and most often hit out of anger... or that has been my experience of them. One cannot discipline others if one first does not know how to discipline themselves. JWs hit out of anger at the child and anger at their circumstance/situation and as a lack of control in themselves. They spank at the back of the hall, less often because the child isn't minding them and more often because they are getting peer pressure from the group to do so.

Spanking a child with a wooden spoon or a brush is distinctively different from giving a child a mild swap with an open hand... or even of striking them with a rod. Those are two ends of a very large spectrum; mild open hand vs rod. And children do die of being stricken with a rod, especially if the child is hit where internal damage can happen.

If you changed that title to 'teach children to conform' I think it would be much the same thing.

36

Warwick, Queensland, Australia: Elders covered up rape of young girl

by wifibandit in

http://www.warwickdailynews.com.au/news/church-elders-covered-rape-young-girl/3047470/.

and archived forever via the wayback machine.

.

jwundubbed

In sentencing Harvey, Mr Andrews told him he had taken into consideration the fact he had already been punished by the church and through the breakdown of his marriage.
"And I take in to account also your good prospects of good rehabilitation, which seem to be demonstrated by your willingness to admit these things, and your lack of offending in the long period since this offence."

After the ARC report it is amazing that a judge would consider church punishment through the JWs to be in any way valid. This is sick. I feel so bad for that poor girl. He got a two year reduced sentence for the rape of a child!!! Terrible!

11

The Bunker

by TimeBandit in

jw
friends

i ran across this cool video.

i think it's a parody on some recent jw video series or something.

i'm not up to date on jw news and such.

jwundubbed

I watched the videos not long ago. Something has been bothering me and nagging at me ever since. There is a moment somewhere in there, where the leader of that bible study group says something like, "ever since the Great Tribulation was announced"...

That means that the GB could actually announce to the rank and file that they are in the Great Tribulation. And those people would believe it. They would have their 'go bags' and retreat to their bible studies and never know that it isn't true. The thought terrifies me. With so many changes happening in the cult, I can actually believe it will end and possibly even in my lifetime. I never felt that way before. I have begun to wonder if the GB would do exactly this when the fall of the cult is near and... give themselves a head start in getting out of town so to speak.

I know that sounds a bit melodramatic. But it also is something I can actually see happening. Do you all think it could happen like that?

'Just hide in a basement, and when they find you, offer your wrists for the handcuffs. Be submissive. Let them take your kids. Stand there and do nothing but stare at them"

I like this advice. I hope it would mean that those people would get help getting out that much faster.

123

Message from Designer Stubble to the former JWR members

by Designer Stubble in

jw
friends

message from designer stubble to the former jwr members.

first of all i am glad to see that many of you have found your way to this great forum, facilitated by simon.

i am sure that after the dust of the jwr shutdown has settled, you will find this to be a good new home.. i would like to apologize for the sudden closure of jwr.

jwundubbed

> Nobody died, after all.

Grief is grief, loss is loss and as we exJWs all know, someone doesn't have to physically die for that grief and loss to be felt. People lash out when they are hurt. This is normal behavior. It is especially normal for people who have suffered abuse. It doesn't feel right to a lot of people, but that does not make the feelings and reactions wrong.

Personally, I feel like the admin are similar in some ways to the GB or to any governing body of a community in terms of being in the spotlight and what they 'deserve' as such. They became the authorities of the group. They took on the responsibilities that came with hosting, owning, and moderating a social community. This put them in the spotlight. It put them in a place where people can look to them for guidance be it technical, emotional, spiritual, etc. It also put them in a place to be judged for their actions, reactions, and choices... especially when those choices affect their community. To then say that they don't deserve to have the light shown on them and their responsibilities brought out into the open to be discussed by the very people they have cut off for their own selfish benefit is naive. I don't feel that the admins deserve to be personally attacked. But I do believe that they deserve to be held accountable for their actions and to take responsibility for whatever fallout they receive. It was within their capability to lessen rather than to increase that fallout. Instead of facing the music that they were bound to face no matter what, they chose to hide their heads in the sand and run away. I personally believer that each and every one of them deserves to hear the pain they have put people through.

If you want balance then you have to take the good with the bad. If you force everyone to behave well, and only well... then no one gets to deal with their problems, the problems fester, and positive outcomes are rare. What you are seeing is the reactions of people who have been harmed, to great and to little extents each according to their individual needs and personalities. It isn't wrong. If it is uncomfortable to you, you might consider doing some self analysis to find out why it makes you uncomfortable to be confronted with people being open and honest about their negative feelings and reactions.

I, personally, feel that those people who are talking out their frustrations, anger, and pain are doing a very healthy thing. I think that any admin from that other site who is reading the reactions or even contributing to the conversation is doing their part in holding themselves accountable for their actions. And yes, they do deserve what they are getting. And I also think it is absolutely right for the former members of that other site to hold those people accountable for a gross negligence in their responsibilities. Damage control is moot once the damage has been done as it has in this case. Damage control after the fact speaks to a persons guilt, regardless of if that guilt is external or internal. The time to do damage control ended the moment they took action without taking any steps to prevent or limit damage being done in the first place. Attempting to spin a positive cast over a heap of hurt is wrong.

If that other site was just a social network like any other, I would feel entirely different. It was a support forum with a focus on recovery. What they did was wrong, and being faced with the consequences of their reprehensible actions is valid and just.

11

The Bunker

by TimeBandit in

jw
friends

i ran across this cool video.

i think it's a parody on some recent jw video series or something.

i'm not up to date on jw news and such.

jwundubbed

NewYork44M
I'll never understood why they didn't turn off the lights.

Or locked the door. They have a code knock (three, two, one) but they don't bother to lock the door! What??

Looking at the video in this way it struck me that they have two pairs of siblings that could easily be Caleb and Sophia... one at the right age and one set much older. Was that intentional, do you think?

119

Jehovah's Witness Recovery is no more...

by TimeBandit in

jw
friends

i just tried to go to the site and there is a goodbye message.

i was a member there since 2010. i was really surprised.

i had just started posting there again after being away for a while.

jwundubbed

Hey Worlding9,

I am glad to see you too!

You always give us something to think about, though we may not always agree.

This sentiment is precious to me. I never sought out ex-JWs when I was leaving the cult. There were a number of reasons, but paramount among them was the ingrained indoctrination that people must always think the same things and be in agreement in order to get along. I didn't think I would be accepted when I am so opinionated, and often have opinions that others don't agree with. I absolutely love how accepting of different opinions and feelings all the exJWs on these forums are. We can agree to disagree. We can value each other even when we don't agree. We can completely dislike what someone has said, and yet still learn from it. This is the best thing that I will take away from JWR and bring into the Jehovah's-Witness site.

123

Message from Designer Stubble to the former JWR members

by Designer Stubble in

jw
friends

message from designer stubble to the former jwr members.

first of all i am glad to see that many of you have found your way to this great forum, facilitated by simon.

i am sure that after the dust of the jwr shutdown has settled, you will find this to be a good new home.. i would like to apologize for the sudden closure of jwr.

jwundubbed

@DesignerStubble,

I voiced my opinion of the JWR admin fairly succinctly on another thread. But I do respect you for coming here and helping people to understand the closure and your part in it. Thank you for seeing that the people of the community needed a voice speaking for them. I do appreciate that. And thank you for all the good work you did on that site.

29

Welcome y'all from JWR - any questions?

by Simon in

i just wanted to take a minute to say "hi" and welcome to the site for anyone who's come here from jwr.

i can imagine the site being shut down suddenly was shocking and unsettling for many who relied on it and sometimes you don't realize how much you do rely on something until it is gone.. hopefully you'll see some of the same familiar names appearing and be able to reconnect with people you knew via this site and continue your journey together.

i don't know what the posting policies on jwr were but know it as a moderated site so can't imagine them being hugely different to the ones here.

jwundubbed

Thank you for the welcome, the support and the awesome description of your site. I have been to a lot of social networking forums and that was a fantastic welcome!

Are there any restrictions on avatars? Is there a specific size range for pictures? Do you have a tech support section or group of posts for those of us who are tech-unsavvy?

119

Jehovah's Witness Recovery is no more...

by TimeBandit in

jw
friends

i just tried to go to the site and there is a goodbye message.

i was a member there since 2010. i was really surprised.

i had just started posting there again after being away for a while.

jwundubbed

Rifter is a no nonsense kind of guy! I am sure that a great deal of thought went into this decision and that he knew, as I do, that it's going to be fine.

I had a lot of respect for Rifter right up until this happened. I don't care how 'no nonsense' a person is nor how much thought they put into a bad decision. When people serve a purpose to a vulnerable group of people they have a responsibility to those people. While it may have seemed to the admin that this decision came after a lot of time and thought, it was ended in a way that was abrupt and irresponsible to the vulnerable members of their community. You just don't cut people off who need support. And you cannot say that it will be fine. It may be fine for Rifter and the other admin. It will probably be fine for a number of people who are further along in their recovery, or who don't need much recovery. But for some, this will not be fine. You can make a generalized statement like that for all people, but that doesn't make it a true nor a valid statement. What you do when you state something like that is try to make something okay, which is not okay. You attempt to validate an action which is wrong. It was wrong to end a support forum the way they have ended it.

I am perfectly okay that they chose to shut down their site. There is absolutely a valid point being made that people in recovery can become too dependent on a support group. But that isn't anyone's decision to make, but the person in recovery. It has to happen on their timeline, or if their timeline doesn't fit with a necessary change then the community leaders have a responsibility to set a timeline and make it known to their community. If a group whose very name spells out recovery is intent on closing for the benefit of the people running it, then they should give their members a set time to say their goodbyes, have some semblance of closure, collect their history, and reach out to people they want to stay in contact with. It surely couldn't have hurt the admin to have a week or a two-week period to do just that.

I always thought Rifter was an empathetic and reasonable kind of person. I think he seriously underestimated the community he had built. I'm sure there would be some people who would want to cause trouble but overall I think he would have found that most members, while saddened at the loss would rise to the occasion, wish the admin well, and do their best to move on with grace. I think they would have also reached out to as many of the newer and shier members to help them know they aren't alone and that there are good places, like this forum, where they can find support. He didn't give them the chance to exceed his expectations. I am sincerely disappointed in him and the other admin.

And I am very glad that I was not in this situation having just come out of the cult when I was experiencing severe PTSD. This would NOT have been okay, even though it will be fine for the admin and others who are further along in their recovery. If I were just coming out, I would not trust other sites run by ex-JWs. I mean if an exJW will cut you off just like the JWs do then...

You know, last impressions are just as important as first impressions. For some, this was both their first and their last impression of JWR. For others, they will have had years of good memories to counteract this poor situation. But for some of us, we were just getting to know the site, and this closure and the way it happened will be the lasting impression that we have of JWR and those who ran it. I have little to no respect for people who would treat vulnerable people with such disregard. You threw us away JWR. It really doesn't matter how long you have been out of the cult, being thrown away hurts.