Posts by jwundubbed

27

My Book With Bible Stories - 91 stories of murder and rape to be used as bedtime stories for your little children

by Anders Andersen in

"no honey, daddy doesn't like this book.

do you have a nice book we can read?.

as far as i know my wife and i agree this book would be off-limits.

jwundubbed

I don't remember much from the Bible Story books. Here is what I do remember.

I remember the picture of the flood and one arm pulling against the rock trying to save themselves. I also remember the woolly mammoths in that same picture. I never questioned that, and yet I always looked at the mammoths in the rain.

I remember the picture where the angels looked down at human women and wanted to have sex with them. And I remember thinking that made sense because those girls were really pretty.

I remember the picture of... Leah? who the guy had to work for 7 years to marry and then got duped into marrying the sister first. But the picture of the girl he liked was really pretty.

I feel like I should remember an armageddon picture, but I don't.

I remember the story about Dinah and thinking how horrible it was that she got into trouble and all that bad stuff happened just because she laid down next to some guy. You know, sex was a blatant part of the JW life, I don't know why they couldn't say she had sex with him. That would have made that story make a lot more sense.

I remember the story about Jeptha and his daughter who went to the temple and he ripped his shirt. My mom created this huge drama where the kids in our congregation all acted out different parts from the bible story book. There were about 5 girls who were in advanced ballet (one was my sister) and they acted out that scene. It was only about a year ago that my sister told me that she felt really horrible when she found out that they danced like it was something really great when Jeptha's daughter went to the temple only to find out that was talking about human sacrifice. But at the time, I thought it was a nice story. You never heard stories about men who loved their daughters so much they would miss them after sending them away to be a nun or something like that.

And... that's about it. I remember a few other pictures, but not really the stories behind them. That isn't to say that I don't know the stories or wouldn't recognize them if someone pointed them out to me. Some of the info here is wrong and I know it. But that is what comes up in my memory. It is all mostly hazy with some pictures that I really liked.

Ohhh! I remember in one of the pictures Jesus has on the best sandals ever... though, I can't remember what they look like now. I remember having conversation with my sisters about how Jesus always wore the best sandals and you couldn't find sandals like that in a store.

27

My Book With Bible Stories - 91 stories of murder and rape to be used as bedtime stories for your little children

by Anders Andersen in

"no honey, daddy doesn't like this book.

do you have a nice book we can read?.

as far as i know my wife and i agree this book would be off-limits.

jwundubbed

So we both made a habit of skipping stories and sections of the book entirely, and this went on for years, while both our kids were growing up.

Sadly, we couldn't see the forest for the trees at the time, and didnt think much more of it. Now, looking back, I wish I could slap my younger self across the back of the head!

@Tech49, I think you should shake the younger you's hand for skipping bits here and there. If you have to give yourself a smack, make it a Gibbs slap with lots of love included.

27

My Book With Bible Stories - 91 stories of murder and rape to be used as bedtime stories for your little children

by Anders Andersen in

"no honey, daddy doesn't like this book.

do you have a nice book we can read?.

as far as i know my wife and i agree this book would be off-limits.

jwundubbed

I think that there was a threshold for nasty children's tales and that was the Second World War.

This reminded me of a really important point that I learned about in my English Lit classes in college. The most gruesome older stories were not written for children as we see them today. They were written before or during the romantic period of history when society viewed children as tiny adults. I remember comparing in my mind the historical view and my JW childhood experience. There were a lot of similarities that I could draw. There were no books written specifically for children before that period and it was assumed that the same message could be written for both adults and children.

For a very long time the JWs seemed to have this mentality. What was presented for child consumption wasn't meant for children as we see them today. Even though they now have cartoons, I doubt that someone versed in child psychology has anything to do with creating those.

If you look at it from an outside point of view, their choices don't make sense for children. And looking at how children were historically treated before the romantic period of literature... that doesn't make much sense to us either.

27

My Book With Bible Stories - 91 stories of murder and rape to be used as bedtime stories for your little children

by Anders Andersen in

"no honey, daddy doesn't like this book.

do you have a nice book we can read?.

as far as i know my wife and i agree this book would be off-limits.

jwundubbed

@Anders Andersen,

But we wouldn't read our little girl those stories yet either!

yes.... I said that too.

The big difference is that most people in the world got the watered down or white-washed version of their stories while we got the original.

But the fact remains the same. There are a lot of stories out there that are gruesome for children and are in fact as gruesome as the Bible Stories. It is good to point out how bad that book is. But to act like it is worse than everything else out there for kids is also wrong. That just isn't true. And my own personal experience is that the bible stories aren't even that bad for kids.

Harry Potter is a great example. That book is also full of scary and heavy subject matter.

http://www.poppyfields.net/poppy/songs/oldwoman.html

http://list25.com/25-dark-and-disturbing-original-versions-of-childrens-fairy-tales/

http://www.parents.com/fun/entertainment/books/should-kids-read-scary-stories/

I think there is a reality here that we tend to forget. I loved those bible stories. I never knew half of what was wrong with them until after I left and started analysing them. It wasn't the Book of Bible Stories that ever scared me. It was the Revelation book. I never met a kid who was traumatized from reading the Book of Bible Stories. Maybe there are some, but there are a lot more kids who just read them as stories. Kids can actually handle a lot more than we give them credit for. And I personally, don't believe that kids should be sheltered from the realities of the world and life. All those Grimm stories and Bible stories told me that the bigger world was a lot like my world. It was scary but at least there were a lot of people going through it.

Of all the books that we had to read when we were JWs, I found the Book of Bible Stories to be the least of my worries.

34

How to disorder a JW (family) chat

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

we all know the moment that a nice family chat is moving to the propaganda game.. sister in law saying that jw.org is the highest ranked website, cousing saying that the new hq is energy neutral, aunt stating that jw have the best education.... what can we say on these moments?.

that br splane just likes these new light ideas?.

that a jw.org video stated that jw use the name jehovah because people recognize this name?.

jwundubbed

@darkspilver, So... it is right up there with other religious sites like the LDS and the horoscope websites? And actually, it isn't the number 1 ranked website... it is the number one ranked among religious websites. I don't see what the qualifications are to the ranking system.

But again... why would you care if your website is number one among all those other worldly evil sites? Should that matter? Do you think Jehovah wants the website of his organization to be compared to all those other evil and sinful sites?

See... they can present any information that you ask for and you can still shut them down with their own arguments.

34

How to disorder a JW (family) chat

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

we all know the moment that a nice family chat is moving to the propaganda game.. sister in law saying that jw.org is the highest ranked website, cousing saying that the new hq is energy neutral, aunt stating that jw have the best education.... what can we say on these moments?.

that br splane just likes these new light ideas?.

that a jw.org video stated that jw use the name jehovah because people recognize this name?.

jwundubbed

"Sister in law saying that jw.org is the highest ranked website"

Among who? Can you provide that citation or tell us where you heard that? If those sources are worldly, then why would you care to be the highest ranked website? How is the ranking qualified? If your website has the highest ranking but only among yourselves and there is only one website then isn't the ranking of it a moot point?

Honestly, I prefer to get it out of the context they put it in. My family is snarky so I like to put them in their own place. "Shouldn't you be concentrating on those within the organization? It isn't right to put stock in 'worldly' opinions."

"cousin saying that the new HQ is energy neutral"

It shouldn't matter. Jehovah doesn't need any building to be energy neutral. He is the ultimate neutralizer after all.

"aunt stating that jw have the best education"

Again, why compare the JWs to the world. That line of reasoning will lead you right into Satan's arms. Aren't JWs supposed to be better than the world? If they are, then why would you ever compare them to the world?

My family hates it when I have a self-righteous answer that puts them in their own place. I get joy out of that. But I also find it impossible to argue with false logic. I find it much easier to just use their own logic against them.

45

Just A Thought Regarding The Bunker Video

by pale.emperor in

as ridiculous as the bunker video was, a few things popped into my consciousness as i was riding the train today.

firstly, why did they go to all the expense and effort to not only create a bunker, but to furnish it like a living room complete with coffee table, armchair, shelves etc?

i mean, a bunker should be a bunker... boxes of tinned food, tools, medical supplies, emergency gear etc.

jwundubbed

I personally don't understand why these videos are recognized as the "bunker videos" unless that's how they're referred to in other parts of the world.

There was a time, before my time, when witnesses were encouraged to build bunkers to outlive Armageddon. I know this, because I know people who built some bunkers. They might have looked more like sheds than bunkers. But remember that JWs are kept in uneducated ignorance and many of them are poor. So, if they don't have a place that can be an actual bunker, then the basement will do. Haven't you ever watched a Hollywood movie where people treated their basements like bunkers? I have seen many, so it isn't a big stretch to call a basement movie a bunker movie. The word 'bunker' infers all the information needed to understand the context of the videos, whereas 'basement' does not.

27

My Book With Bible Stories - 91 stories of murder and rape to be used as bedtime stories for your little children

by Anders Andersen in

"no honey, daddy doesn't like this book.

do you have a nice book we can read?.

as far as i know my wife and i agree this book would be off-limits.

jwundubbed

Well... to be fair, all the items you mention are in the original fairy-tales that we have come to love through animation and digital media, through Disney, Dreamworks, and Pixar. Those tales were actually pretty gruesome, which is why I always liked the originals, and fall right in line with our own bedtime stories from our 'Book of Bible Stories'. The big difference is that most people in the world got the watered down or white-washed version of their stories while we got the original... but perverted for a different course.

30

Trouble in paradise!

by Confusedalot in

just for fun, some thoughts about the paradise teaching:.

will all the carnivores be transformed anatomically?

if a lion is transformed into a herbivore would it still be a lion?

jwundubbed

Will all the carnivores be transformed anatomically? If a lion is transformed into a herbivore would it still be a lion? Or will carnivores just not be there because of their sins?

Most carnivores wouldn't need to be transformed anatomically. They would need a new set of teeth and a different structure to their stomachs. So, basically a little nip here, a tuck there, and some dental implants would work just fine.

Will they have immune systems? If there is no illness will they need immune systems. And how much would the world need to change so that anything that can cause them harm will not be there?

The easier answer is to give every living being a super immune system. Just make them superheroes but don't tell them. I mean... your basic Marvel Wolverine or DC Superman sans flight would work just fine.

Will they have children? If they have eternal life will there be any need for children. Would they even have marriage? Would they procreate? No sex in paradise or is God just gonna make them infertile?

My dad is a scientist. He said there was a really good reason why people can't have children then... and it isn't just because we will all suddenly lose our sex organs/genitalia (look it up) and become real life barbie dolls. If all life on earth continued to procreate but we no longer killed any animals and people didn't die... humans would end up packed into the earth with the animals like sardines first and foremost because of how prolifically the flies procreate. There is a phrase, 'to mate like rabits'... it isn't for nothing. Nope, can't have that. The earth would reach its tipping point and fall right out of the sky in less than a month!

Will there be no pain or limited pain? If there is no pain will that mean that slapping someone hard wont be a sin because they cant feel it?

Well, there are two things to address here.

First, slapping someone isn't currently a sin because it hurts. It is a sin because it is taking violent action against another person. If pain = sin, helluva lot more things would be sinful. We could all incarcerate our coffee tables for sinning against our toes.

Second, this may hurt your brain. When someone feels that 'tickle' sensation that makes them giggle they are actually experiencing pain. Their brain gets the signals mixed up and tells them that it is funny and they should laugh. So... with that in mind... would there even be happiness?

Will they remember friends and family that "did not make it" and other bad life experiences? If we cant remember these things will it actually be "Me" that was resurrected?

Serious answer: I was thinking about this just today. I've been marinating the idea of writing an Armageddon story and so I think about these things a wee bit more than anyone needs to. I was thinking about how TV shows never portray the grief of losing a character correctly. They have a day where everyone mourns. Good shows will bring up the loss in other small ways later on. But the reference to the loss and to the lost ones fade out until there is almost no memory of the person at all. In reality, I think we do something similar except that loss of someone really close takes way longer to fade and even after the fade we have moments where we just have to cry over the loss. But then I thought... maybe we don't have those moments where we need to have a deep weep over our bereavement. Maybe TV is more like reality than we would like to think. Maybe, when we have no references to that person... maybe then we really do practically forget them.

I have to ponder this thought a little more.

An eternity in paradise means an eternity of constant fear of doing something wrong and loosing everything in the second death? Talk about a constant axe over the neck!

Um... I think you misunderstand the definition of 'eternity'. I think there is like a thousand years between the first and second death. Then... um... um... if God cannot lie... then he thinks up some horrible punishment for misbehavior because by that point everyone should be in line... Yeah... I got nothin'. I wish I had thought this one through when I was still in. That would have saved me a couple of decades of PTSD.

Will those in paradise live like God intended and be naked? Imagine you are in paradise, its late afternoon, you and your family are watching the sunset and talking about how great it is to be in paradise. All of a sudden your neighbor Bob(naked) passes in front of you and drops his apple. He bends over to pick it up but it keeps rolling away and he just cant seem to get it (all this in plain view). Now you see the moon also!

You have already forgotten the Barbie & Ken rule. Imagine if Bob looked like Ken Doll and bent over. Meh. Nothing to see folks. Actually, I might cry. How could God take away all our toys? Hasn't he punished us enough?

41

JWs MUST Accept The Watchtower Teachings EVEN When They Are Wrong!

by minimus in

jw
friends

isn't it unbelievable that a jehovah's witness must accept whatever the organization says or they can be disfellowshipped??

unless they tell you that their understanding has changed, you cannot believe anything unless they say it's ok. .

many years ago i questioned them about their ridiculous view that whenever the word "heart" was mentioned, it was a literal blood filled organ.

jwundubbed

this is the same thing as sending soldiers into unnecessary danger because a plan of attack was misguided/misinformed. It's never about being right........ it's worse then that.....because it's always about marching in step.....obeying orders.

I disagree. The fundamental difference being that soldiers are told that their job is to follow orders and they know that when they sign up. There is enough information out there for anyone going into the military to know that they might end up going into battle when their commander is wrong to any extent. They know that when they sign up... or they should. Example, "The Charge of the Light Brigade" by Alfred Tennyson (1854) explained beautifully in 'The Blind Side'.

This is what 'gaslighting' is. You have to believe whatever they tell you at the moment they are telling you it. Even if it doesn't make sense. Even if they said something different one second before. Even if they just contradicted themselves. They are always right and when they make the argument that you are wrong... in this way.. it is gaslighting. It isn't straightforward. It isn't honest. And no one consented to having the GB be correct even when they are wrong when they signed up.

I should amend that last sentence. No one born into the cult, and people from my parents and my generation didn't consent to the GB being right even when they are wrong. It is entirely possible that people are currently consenting to that before they join up. I remember hearing that specific rhetoric in my teens. My mom believes she is annointed and has since she joined up... she would argue the ridiculousness of what the GB wanted us to believe and then would tell us to believe it anyway!