Posts by jwundubbed

15

Former Elder insights on recent Child Abuse Cases & changes in the Org

by cha ching in

this former elder, was briefly featured on pbs segment about child abuse among jehovah's witnesses.

in this youtube interview, he is asked about some of his experiences in the org from 1971 to the present.. at about 16:10 he starts telling his story about his involvement with trey bundy, and how he got to know jonathan kendrick, from the candace conti case.. for some reason, this video is starting 15 minutes in, and i can't get the link to start at zero.... you can always rewind ;-).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqemkxhtj4w.

jwundubbed

They mention a clip on PBS but they don't say what it is a part of. Anyone know what that is? I would be interested in seeing that.

16

custody orders, proving to the court why my daughters should be baptized at 18. JW OR NOT

by Gokumonkey in

hello everyone ive been posting about this situation about my daughters and their jw mom so if u want to get a back story about whats going on you can check out my previous posts.. note- daughters are only 5 months old, and i live in the united states.. right now im typing up my court orders to present to the court but ive come to a road block.

i want to add reasons to why its not a good idea to have my daughters be baptized at a young age.. here is my rough draft -.

"age appropriate baptism – i wish that my daughters to be baptized at the legal age of 18 years old.

jwundubbed

I agree with those suggesting that you get legal council. You could even just do a consultation with a lawyer. That is often free. The reason that I say this is that your reasoning doesn't look like it would hold much weight from a legal standpoint. Many parents in other religions baptize their children (to save their souls) when they are infants. You need to lay out the difference in what it means when JWs get baptized, you need to lay it out in every way, and you need to do so in a way that says, "This is what it means in this religion."

Your writing... it needs a basic grammar and spelling check. It is mostly emotional and doesn't make a lot of sense from an outside perspective. The judge is human but they will also be coming from their own background. You have no idea what that is. But, guaranteed they will have no idea how things work within the Jehovah's Witnesses religion.

You would be wise to get a lawyer to cover all your bases, and then write your own heartfelt response to be included. This way, the judge will see that while you are emotional.. your desire for your children is reasonable and not just motivated by your personal feelings about.... whatever. The judge will get to see a balanced perspective and your very personal perspective. Both are important and they should be presented together.

27

My Book With Bible Stories - 91 stories of murder and rape to be used as bedtime stories for your little children

by Anders Andersen in

"no honey, daddy doesn't like this book.

do you have a nice book we can read?.

as far as i know my wife and i agree this book would be off-limits.

jwundubbed

I don't remember much from the Bible Story books. Here is what I do remember.

I remember the picture of the flood and one arm pulling against the rock trying to save themselves. I also remember the woolly mammoths in that same picture. I never questioned that, and yet I always looked at the mammoths in the rain.

I remember the picture where the angels looked down at human women and wanted to have sex with them. And I remember thinking that made sense because those girls were really pretty.

I remember the picture of... Leah? who the guy had to work for 7 years to marry and then got duped into marrying the sister first. But the picture of the girl he liked was really pretty.

I feel like I should remember an armageddon picture, but I don't.

I remember the story about Dinah and thinking how horrible it was that she got into trouble and all that bad stuff happened just because she laid down next to some guy. You know, sex was a blatant part of the JW life, I don't know why they couldn't say she had sex with him. That would have made that story make a lot more sense.

I remember the story about Jeptha and his daughter who went to the temple and he ripped his shirt. My mom created this huge drama where the kids in our congregation all acted out different parts from the bible story book. There were about 5 girls who were in advanced ballet (one was my sister) and they acted out that scene. It was only about a year ago that my sister told me that she felt really horrible when she found out that they danced like it was something really great when Jeptha's daughter went to the temple only to find out that was talking about human sacrifice. But at the time, I thought it was a nice story. You never heard stories about men who loved their daughters so much they would miss them after sending them away to be a nun or something like that.

And... that's about it. I remember a few other pictures, but not really the stories behind them. That isn't to say that I don't know the stories or wouldn't recognize them if someone pointed them out to me. Some of the info here is wrong and I know it. But that is what comes up in my memory. It is all mostly hazy with some pictures that I really liked.

Ohhh! I remember in one of the pictures Jesus has on the best sandals ever... though, I can't remember what they look like now. I remember having conversation with my sisters about how Jesus always wore the best sandals and you couldn't find sandals like that in a store.

27

My Book With Bible Stories - 91 stories of murder and rape to be used as bedtime stories for your little children

by Anders Andersen in

"no honey, daddy doesn't like this book.

do you have a nice book we can read?.

as far as i know my wife and i agree this book would be off-limits.

jwundubbed

So we both made a habit of skipping stories and sections of the book entirely, and this went on for years, while both our kids were growing up.

Sadly, we couldn't see the forest for the trees at the time, and didnt think much more of it. Now, looking back, I wish I could slap my younger self across the back of the head!

@Tech49, I think you should shake the younger you's hand for skipping bits here and there. If you have to give yourself a smack, make it a Gibbs slap with lots of love included.

27

My Book With Bible Stories - 91 stories of murder and rape to be used as bedtime stories for your little children

by Anders Andersen in

"no honey, daddy doesn't like this book.

do you have a nice book we can read?.

as far as i know my wife and i agree this book would be off-limits.

jwundubbed

I think that there was a threshold for nasty children's tales and that was the Second World War.

This reminded me of a really important point that I learned about in my English Lit classes in college. The most gruesome older stories were not written for children as we see them today. They were written before or during the romantic period of history when society viewed children as tiny adults. I remember comparing in my mind the historical view and my JW childhood experience. There were a lot of similarities that I could draw. There were no books written specifically for children before that period and it was assumed that the same message could be written for both adults and children.

For a very long time the JWs seemed to have this mentality. What was presented for child consumption wasn't meant for children as we see them today. Even though they now have cartoons, I doubt that someone versed in child psychology has anything to do with creating those.

If you look at it from an outside point of view, their choices don't make sense for children. And looking at how children were historically treated before the romantic period of literature... that doesn't make much sense to us either.

27

My Book With Bible Stories - 91 stories of murder and rape to be used as bedtime stories for your little children

by Anders Andersen in

"no honey, daddy doesn't like this book.

do you have a nice book we can read?.

as far as i know my wife and i agree this book would be off-limits.

jwundubbed

@Anders Andersen,

But we wouldn't read our little girl those stories yet either!

yes.... I said that too.

The big difference is that most people in the world got the watered down or white-washed version of their stories while we got the original.

But the fact remains the same. There are a lot of stories out there that are gruesome for children and are in fact as gruesome as the Bible Stories. It is good to point out how bad that book is. But to act like it is worse than everything else out there for kids is also wrong. That just isn't true. And my own personal experience is that the bible stories aren't even that bad for kids.

Harry Potter is a great example. That book is also full of scary and heavy subject matter.

http://www.poppyfields.net/poppy/songs/oldwoman.html

http://list25.com/25-dark-and-disturbing-original-versions-of-childrens-fairy-tales/

http://www.parents.com/fun/entertainment/books/should-kids-read-scary-stories/

I think there is a reality here that we tend to forget. I loved those bible stories. I never knew half of what was wrong with them until after I left and started analysing them. It wasn't the Book of Bible Stories that ever scared me. It was the Revelation book. I never met a kid who was traumatized from reading the Book of Bible Stories. Maybe there are some, but there are a lot more kids who just read them as stories. Kids can actually handle a lot more than we give them credit for. And I personally, don't believe that kids should be sheltered from the realities of the world and life. All those Grimm stories and Bible stories told me that the bigger world was a lot like my world. It was scary but at least there were a lot of people going through it.

Of all the books that we had to read when we were JWs, I found the Book of Bible Stories to be the least of my worries.

34

How to disorder a JW (family) chat

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

we all know the moment that a nice family chat is moving to the propaganda game.. sister in law saying that jw.org is the highest ranked website, cousing saying that the new hq is energy neutral, aunt stating that jw have the best education.... what can we say on these moments?.

that br splane just likes these new light ideas?.

that a jw.org video stated that jw use the name jehovah because people recognize this name?.

jwundubbed

@darkspilver, So... it is right up there with other religious sites like the LDS and the horoscope websites? And actually, it isn't the number 1 ranked website... it is the number one ranked among religious websites. I don't see what the qualifications are to the ranking system.

But again... why would you care if your website is number one among all those other worldly evil sites? Should that matter? Do you think Jehovah wants the website of his organization to be compared to all those other evil and sinful sites?

See... they can present any information that you ask for and you can still shut them down with their own arguments.

34

How to disorder a JW (family) chat

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

we all know the moment that a nice family chat is moving to the propaganda game.. sister in law saying that jw.org is the highest ranked website, cousing saying that the new hq is energy neutral, aunt stating that jw have the best education.... what can we say on these moments?.

that br splane just likes these new light ideas?.

that a jw.org video stated that jw use the name jehovah because people recognize this name?.

jwundubbed

"Sister in law saying that jw.org is the highest ranked website"

Among who? Can you provide that citation or tell us where you heard that? If those sources are worldly, then why would you care to be the highest ranked website? How is the ranking qualified? If your website has the highest ranking but only among yourselves and there is only one website then isn't the ranking of it a moot point?

Honestly, I prefer to get it out of the context they put it in. My family is snarky so I like to put them in their own place. "Shouldn't you be concentrating on those within the organization? It isn't right to put stock in 'worldly' opinions."

"cousin saying that the new HQ is energy neutral"

It shouldn't matter. Jehovah doesn't need any building to be energy neutral. He is the ultimate neutralizer after all.

"aunt stating that jw have the best education"

Again, why compare the JWs to the world. That line of reasoning will lead you right into Satan's arms. Aren't JWs supposed to be better than the world? If they are, then why would you ever compare them to the world?

My family hates it when I have a self-righteous answer that puts them in their own place. I get joy out of that. But I also find it impossible to argue with false logic. I find it much easier to just use their own logic against them.

45

Just A Thought Regarding The Bunker Video

by pale.emperor in

as ridiculous as the bunker video was, a few things popped into my consciousness as i was riding the train today.

firstly, why did they go to all the expense and effort to not only create a bunker, but to furnish it like a living room complete with coffee table, armchair, shelves etc?

i mean, a bunker should be a bunker... boxes of tinned food, tools, medical supplies, emergency gear etc.

jwundubbed

I personally don't understand why these videos are recognized as the "bunker videos" unless that's how they're referred to in other parts of the world.

There was a time, before my time, when witnesses were encouraged to build bunkers to outlive Armageddon. I know this, because I know people who built some bunkers. They might have looked more like sheds than bunkers. But remember that JWs are kept in uneducated ignorance and many of them are poor. So, if they don't have a place that can be an actual bunker, then the basement will do. Haven't you ever watched a Hollywood movie where people treated their basements like bunkers? I have seen many, so it isn't a big stretch to call a basement movie a bunker movie. The word 'bunker' infers all the information needed to understand the context of the videos, whereas 'basement' does not.

27

My Book With Bible Stories - 91 stories of murder and rape to be used as bedtime stories for your little children

by Anders Andersen in

"no honey, daddy doesn't like this book.

do you have a nice book we can read?.

as far as i know my wife and i agree this book would be off-limits.

jwundubbed

Well... to be fair, all the items you mention are in the original fairy-tales that we have come to love through animation and digital media, through Disney, Dreamworks, and Pixar. Those tales were actually pretty gruesome, which is why I always liked the originals, and fall right in line with our own bedtime stories from our 'Book of Bible Stories'. The big difference is that most people in the world got the watered down or white-washed version of their stories while we got the original... but perverted for a different course.