Posts by jwundubbed

15

Update: My current situation

by Issa in

it's been about two months since i stopped attending meetings, came to the conclusion that the org is not the truth, and i'm currently dealing with some problems since leaving the org.

i want to discuss these problems and hopefully get helpful advice.. discovering the truth about ourselves is a lifetime's work, but it's worth the effort - fred rogers.

my current situation in this: i faded and hold off on writing a disassociation letter.

jwundubbed

How should I react when I meet any sister or brother? I try to avoid meeting them, but at any point I will meet them again.

Smile. Be polite. Keep it short. Don't explain yourself. Don't tell them that you left. As someone else said on another thread, look at your watch and tell them you are late for an appointment. Or, don't look at your watch and just tell them you have somewhere you have to be.

My problem is my father insisting me that I should talk to the elders. So far, only one elder texted me to know how I am doing. From what I've been researching and hearing, Judicial Committees are the worst. I'm not planning or even considered meeting with the elders.

As others have said, don't meet with the elders. Their only reason for meeting with you is to see if you are repentant, which you aren't. Also, you are a woman and you will be distrusted more than any man facing the same consequences. Tell your dad that you appreciate his concern, but you have prayed about it and feel that you know the right thing to do now. Don't explain further. Keep it short. Stop trying to convince him that his religion is wrong. No one convinced you of that. You came to that conclusion on your own. Your family and friends deserve to have their own truths. They may find the same one that you did or they may not. But you cannot change their minds. Only they can do that. So stop trying. Also, trying to change their minds about their religion is not fading. So, take a step back. Let them have time to see that you are the same person you always were. Let them know that you aren't trying to get them to leave the organization. Tell them you are having a hard time but you are praying about it.

Then, as others have said, build yourself a new support network outside of the cult. Get involved in some activities that you enjoy and start meeting people. It will get better when you have your own community and social support. That isn't to say that it will ever get any easier to deal with family who are still in. I haven't found that to be true. But, it gets easier to have times when you don't think about it because you will begin to build a new chosen family.

Another problem is that my siblings (one left the org for personal reasons, the other was studying with a witness) are treating me harshly than before. This is one of the consequences that I accepted, even so, it pains me that my siblings are reacting this way. I can't talk about why the org is not the truth without getting backlash from my sisters.

Then stop talking about it. Wasn't it painful for you when you realized that the Truth wasn't the truth? Do you really want to put them through that? You are not responsible for their beliefs. It isn't your place to put them through hell because you see it differently now. It would be nice and easier if they believed like you do. But you aren't a JW anymore. So stop trying to make them believe what you believe. It will only hurt everyone. If they find that truth for themselves... great. If they left the cult for their own reasons, then why do you feel it necessary to force your new beliefs on them?

You have been taught that it is your personal responsibility to bring the truth to people. But that isn't true. Your responsibility is to live your life in a way that is responsible to you. You have rights but you also have responsibilities. Your families souls or beliefs are not your responsibility. Stop taking that on.

To be honest... trying to make our families see our truths is a great way to deflect our pain. You have lived for a long time seeing only a future that is bright and now that is gone you may not see the future at all. Then start living in the present. Deal with your pain. Get some professional help. Meet people at every opportunity and you will find out that the 'world' is a really nice and caring place. You will find that people are, in general, very good and want to help.

Last but not least... it is time for you to recognize that there is no such thing as The Truth. There is your truth, my truth, his truth, a collective truth, a social truth, an organizational truth, a sytemic truth, a national truth, etc. etc. etc. Truth is subjective. People coming out of the cult talk about 'The TRUTH about THE TRUTH'. And that isn't a bad thing. It helps a lot of people.

But truth is subjective. There is no One Truth about The Truth. There are many truths about the truth. For some, their truth is that THE TRUTH is the truth. And you don't have any ability to alter their truth. Only they can do that.

My truth about the JWs is not the same as your truth about the JWs. I have been out for 20 years now and I still don't care about all those items that you mentioned. You aren't wrong, but those are not my truths. I don't care about those things because they never had much of an impact on me. I can't even say that the rampant child abuse is a big factor for me. I saw too much of it among my friends. I grew up watching and experiencing the knowledge that women and children have no rights among the JWs and we were never good for anything but being the property of, the objects, of the playthings of, and the punching bags of men. That was my truth. But that didn't make me leave the cult because that was my reality. I didn't know there was another reality. I didn't know there were many other realities.

You have found the things that made you think twice. That doesn't mean that they will make anyone else think twice as well. Each person has their own truth and only they will find things that will make them take a closer look or change their minds. Sometimes they won't find those things. So stop trying to do something that is outside your ability to do.

Edit: To be clear, when I said I don't care about the things the OP mentioned, I don't mean that I don't care about them at all. I meant that for the purposes of this conversation, those items were not things that I considered when making my choice to leave. Those things are important and play an overall part in my life, but they weren't things that made me think the cult was a cult, or made me think that I should leave the JWs.

15

Former Elder insights on recent Child Abuse Cases & changes in the Org

by cha ching in

this former elder, was briefly featured on pbs segment about child abuse among jehovah's witnesses.

in this youtube interview, he is asked about some of his experiences in the org from 1971 to the present.. at about 16:10 he starts telling his story about his involvement with trey bundy, and how he got to know jonathan kendrick, from the candace conti case.. for some reason, this video is starting 15 minutes in, and i can't get the link to start at zero.... you can always rewind ;-).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqemkxhtj4w.

jwundubbed

@cha ching,

Thank you!!!

20

Do Jehovah's witnesses take therapy?

by Gokumonkey in

i know two jehovah's witnesses couple.

the husband had a rough upbringing.

his father left him at a young age, leaving his mom and himself to take care of his siblings.

jwundubbed

When I first started exhibiting symptoms of extreme PTSD as I was on my way out of the JWs, I went to a clinical psychologist. I started by telling her that I had been a JW and that it had been a very bad experience. She contradicted me by telling me that she had about 14 JW clients and they were all very nice and good people.

I didn't know current JWs went to therapists. But they do.

I told her that I just wanted to work on ways to deal with the symptoms that I was experiencing. Luckily I was going out of town to go to college so I could tell her that I would seek further counseling there and she did help me deal with the physical symptoms that were disrupting my life. And I did seek further counseling.

I never ever go to a counselor or therapist who thinks JWs are great people. I have met quite a few. So, despite what the Watchtowers may say... some JWs do seek outside counsel.

Also, my mother is mentally ill. I met a lot of mentally ill people in the JWs. Most of them had medications. You don't get medications unless you have them written by a licensed professional. Some people went voluntarily. More than a few of the ones that I knew had been involuntarily committed to mental hospitals. So, they received required and mandatory counseling. Sometimes even JWs have to function according to the law and are therefor required to attend professional counseling of some kind.

6

"special" anti cart campaign!!

by nowwhat? in

go up to cart witnesses and ask what their organization is doing to aid hurricane victims.

and when they say they look to gods kingdom for the solution.

say your solution is for god kill 99.9 % of humans!

jwundubbed

Go up to cart witnesses and ask what their organization is doing to aid hurricane victims. And when they say they look to gods kingdom for the solution. Say your solution is for God kill 99.9 % of humans! No people no problems! Be sure to take a picture of the deer in headlight look!

I have never understood trying to tell people things like this. They are aware of what their God's solution is and they are all for it. I think if you get the deer in the headlight look it will be because they don't understand your accusation. You are just stating the obvious. How do you react when someone states the obvious to you, but acts as though it is some kind of revelation?

I would rather ask them how ignoring people in grave need makes them the 'charitable organization' that they are so proud of being.

You know, it never occurred to me when I was in the cult that we never helped anyone who wasn't a JW. I never actually knew that. I always thought that we helped people in their times of need... more so in other countries where the need is really great, but that was what I always thought. After I left, someone pointed out to me that the JWs don't help anyone in need but themselves and consider their only charitable act to be their proselytizing. I think a lot of current witnesses would have to take a moment of consideration if that fact were pointed out to them. I don't think it would make a lot of difference... but it might plant a seed.

15

Former Elder insights on recent Child Abuse Cases & changes in the Org

by cha ching in

this former elder, was briefly featured on pbs segment about child abuse among jehovah's witnesses.

in this youtube interview, he is asked about some of his experiences in the org from 1971 to the present.. at about 16:10 he starts telling his story about his involvement with trey bundy, and how he got to know jonathan kendrick, from the candace conti case.. for some reason, this video is starting 15 minutes in, and i can't get the link to start at zero.... you can always rewind ;-).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqemkxhtj4w.

jwundubbed

They mention a clip on PBS but they don't say what it is a part of. Anyone know what that is? I would be interested in seeing that.

16

custody orders, proving to the court why my daughters should be baptized at 18. JW OR NOT

by Gokumonkey in

hello everyone ive been posting about this situation about my daughters and their jw mom so if u want to get a back story about whats going on you can check out my previous posts.. note- daughters are only 5 months old, and i live in the united states.. right now im typing up my court orders to present to the court but ive come to a road block.

i want to add reasons to why its not a good idea to have my daughters be baptized at a young age.. here is my rough draft -.

"age appropriate baptism – i wish that my daughters to be baptized at the legal age of 18 years old.

jwundubbed

I agree with those suggesting that you get legal council. You could even just do a consultation with a lawyer. That is often free. The reason that I say this is that your reasoning doesn't look like it would hold much weight from a legal standpoint. Many parents in other religions baptize their children (to save their souls) when they are infants. You need to lay out the difference in what it means when JWs get baptized, you need to lay it out in every way, and you need to do so in a way that says, "This is what it means in this religion."

Your writing... it needs a basic grammar and spelling check. It is mostly emotional and doesn't make a lot of sense from an outside perspective. The judge is human but they will also be coming from their own background. You have no idea what that is. But, guaranteed they will have no idea how things work within the Jehovah's Witnesses religion.

You would be wise to get a lawyer to cover all your bases, and then write your own heartfelt response to be included. This way, the judge will see that while you are emotional.. your desire for your children is reasonable and not just motivated by your personal feelings about.... whatever. The judge will get to see a balanced perspective and your very personal perspective. Both are important and they should be presented together.

27

My Book With Bible Stories - 91 stories of murder and rape to be used as bedtime stories for your little children

by Anders Andersen in

"no honey, daddy doesn't like this book.

do you have a nice book we can read?.

as far as i know my wife and i agree this book would be off-limits.

jwundubbed

I don't remember much from the Bible Story books. Here is what I do remember.

I remember the picture of the flood and one arm pulling against the rock trying to save themselves. I also remember the woolly mammoths in that same picture. I never questioned that, and yet I always looked at the mammoths in the rain.

I remember the picture where the angels looked down at human women and wanted to have sex with them. And I remember thinking that made sense because those girls were really pretty.

I remember the picture of... Leah? who the guy had to work for 7 years to marry and then got duped into marrying the sister first. But the picture of the girl he liked was really pretty.

I feel like I should remember an armageddon picture, but I don't.

I remember the story about Dinah and thinking how horrible it was that she got into trouble and all that bad stuff happened just because she laid down next to some guy. You know, sex was a blatant part of the JW life, I don't know why they couldn't say she had sex with him. That would have made that story make a lot more sense.

I remember the story about Jeptha and his daughter who went to the temple and he ripped his shirt. My mom created this huge drama where the kids in our congregation all acted out different parts from the bible story book. There were about 5 girls who were in advanced ballet (one was my sister) and they acted out that scene. It was only about a year ago that my sister told me that she felt really horrible when she found out that they danced like it was something really great when Jeptha's daughter went to the temple only to find out that was talking about human sacrifice. But at the time, I thought it was a nice story. You never heard stories about men who loved their daughters so much they would miss them after sending them away to be a nun or something like that.

And... that's about it. I remember a few other pictures, but not really the stories behind them. That isn't to say that I don't know the stories or wouldn't recognize them if someone pointed them out to me. Some of the info here is wrong and I know it. But that is what comes up in my memory. It is all mostly hazy with some pictures that I really liked.

Ohhh! I remember in one of the pictures Jesus has on the best sandals ever... though, I can't remember what they look like now. I remember having conversation with my sisters about how Jesus always wore the best sandals and you couldn't find sandals like that in a store.

27

My Book With Bible Stories - 91 stories of murder and rape to be used as bedtime stories for your little children

by Anders Andersen in

"no honey, daddy doesn't like this book.

do you have a nice book we can read?.

as far as i know my wife and i agree this book would be off-limits.

jwundubbed

So we both made a habit of skipping stories and sections of the book entirely, and this went on for years, while both our kids were growing up.

Sadly, we couldn't see the forest for the trees at the time, and didnt think much more of it. Now, looking back, I wish I could slap my younger self across the back of the head!

@Tech49, I think you should shake the younger you's hand for skipping bits here and there. If you have to give yourself a smack, make it a Gibbs slap with lots of love included.

27

My Book With Bible Stories - 91 stories of murder and rape to be used as bedtime stories for your little children

by Anders Andersen in

"no honey, daddy doesn't like this book.

do you have a nice book we can read?.

as far as i know my wife and i agree this book would be off-limits.

jwundubbed

I think that there was a threshold for nasty children's tales and that was the Second World War.

This reminded me of a really important point that I learned about in my English Lit classes in college. The most gruesome older stories were not written for children as we see them today. They were written before or during the romantic period of history when society viewed children as tiny adults. I remember comparing in my mind the historical view and my JW childhood experience. There were a lot of similarities that I could draw. There were no books written specifically for children before that period and it was assumed that the same message could be written for both adults and children.

For a very long time the JWs seemed to have this mentality. What was presented for child consumption wasn't meant for children as we see them today. Even though they now have cartoons, I doubt that someone versed in child psychology has anything to do with creating those.

If you look at it from an outside point of view, their choices don't make sense for children. And looking at how children were historically treated before the romantic period of literature... that doesn't make much sense to us either.

27

My Book With Bible Stories - 91 stories of murder and rape to be used as bedtime stories for your little children

by Anders Andersen in

"no honey, daddy doesn't like this book.

do you have a nice book we can read?.

as far as i know my wife and i agree this book would be off-limits.

jwundubbed

@Anders Andersen,

But we wouldn't read our little girl those stories yet either!

yes.... I said that too.

The big difference is that most people in the world got the watered down or white-washed version of their stories while we got the original.

But the fact remains the same. There are a lot of stories out there that are gruesome for children and are in fact as gruesome as the Bible Stories. It is good to point out how bad that book is. But to act like it is worse than everything else out there for kids is also wrong. That just isn't true. And my own personal experience is that the bible stories aren't even that bad for kids.

Harry Potter is a great example. That book is also full of scary and heavy subject matter.

http://www.poppyfields.net/poppy/songs/oldwoman.html

http://list25.com/25-dark-and-disturbing-original-versions-of-childrens-fairy-tales/

http://www.parents.com/fun/entertainment/books/should-kids-read-scary-stories/

I think there is a reality here that we tend to forget. I loved those bible stories. I never knew half of what was wrong with them until after I left and started analysing them. It wasn't the Book of Bible Stories that ever scared me. It was the Revelation book. I never met a kid who was traumatized from reading the Book of Bible Stories. Maybe there are some, but there are a lot more kids who just read them as stories. Kids can actually handle a lot more than we give them credit for. And I personally, don't believe that kids should be sheltered from the realities of the world and life. All those Grimm stories and Bible stories told me that the bigger world was a lot like my world. It was scary but at least there were a lot of people going through it.

Of all the books that we had to read when we were JWs, I found the Book of Bible Stories to be the least of my worries.