Posts by jwundubbed

20

Dog peeing on a literature cart

by Bad_Wolf in

look at the dogs face, i can't stop laughing at this!!

and he's peeing right into the holder part of the literature, so they are going to have manually wash that out haha.

.

jwundubbed

Cost of a home bible study? Free

Watching a dog pee on the hate propaganda? Priceless.

Side Note: How much do they think worldly people pay for home bible studies?

30

Shunning: Reasoning With JW's

by The Fall Guy in

perhaps this line of questioning could agitate a jw's thinking.

it can't hurt.. you: is shunning a biblical teaching?.

jw: yes.. you: so it must be god's law?.

The main reason that you cannot reason with a JW, which by the way is talked about a lot in this forum, is called Cognitive Dissonance. Reason doesn't work when there is a disconnect that interrupts reason and logic.

The person could potentially cite the ideas of respect towards parents and parental obligations towards children. But even if they have no argument against your point, they will simply disconnect from the argument entirely and tell you that times have changed and God sends his laws to the GB now. It may be ignorant and lack logic and reason, but it is a circular argument that can't be argued against. They believe what they believe, and trying to argue with them won't change their minds.

Even when I couldn't argue a person's point (and that was all the time when defending my JW beliefs) I could always simply refuse to argue and put up that my belief is what it is and can't be changed. Then, even though I couldn't stand up for my own beliefs I would feel threatened with people trying to tell me that my beliefs were wrong. And that would make me think of all the instances where the literature and the studies talk about how Satan and worldly people will try to break you down. It did the opposite of what you seem to be wanting to do. It made me dig in deeper.

So, yeah, it could hurt. It might sew a seed of doubt or it might sew a seed of self-righteousness. I didn't leave because someone showed me the error of the beliefs. I left because I was shunned based on a rumor. I left because I personally saw inconsistencies in the way people behaved and the way they said they behaved. I left because the way people treated others was wrong. I left because I realized that no 'man' had the right to come between me and my relationship with God, and no man had the right to speak to me as though they were speaking for God, especially since they were getting it wrong.

A lot of people leave or stay in because of a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with JW doctrine and beliefs.

18

JW's are slaves- but not in a good way

by joey jojo in

i was reading about the american slave trade again recently.

as anyone who has read anything about the subject knows, it makes for very uncomfortable reading.

every time i read the history, i'm left with a sense of outrage and seething anger at the pure inhumanity and injustice of what life must have been like for those people.

jwundubbed

Pretty sure that's called "employment".- Vidiot

No. There are people who engage in consent based relationships where they negotiate and contract the relationship. Think along the lines of Fifty Shades of Grey only not ridiculously stupid. Marriage used to be a form of slavery and was contract based. It was a contract between men and women had no choice. Today no one thinks of marriage as being a contract, but it is. And while it isn't put on paper in legal form, vows are the negotiation and the rings are signs of the contract. You even have to have a license (in the US) if you want to get married.

Today, marriage is consensual for the women as well as the men. And today, people can actually go into slavery consensually. I'm not saying this is right or wrong. I'm not saying whether it is weird or not. What I am saying is that if you want examples of slavery that is good, or slavery that isn't 'always' bad, you read a book or do a tiny bit of web research. It isn't hard to find both in past history and currently.

18

JW's are slaves- but not in a good way

by joey jojo in

i was reading about the american slave trade again recently.

as anyone who has read anything about the subject knows, it makes for very uncomfortable reading.

every time i read the history, i'm left with a sense of outrage and seething anger at the pure inhumanity and injustice of what life must have been like for those people.

jwundubbed

read it again.... and again.... see the contradiction? Its not found among white people... but it is found among the indentured servants of england and america? Those are white people. In your rush to idenitfy the white man as the root of all evil you made directly contradicting statements. - _Morpheus

Um... I didn't say that good slavery isn't among white people. I said you don't find good forms of slavery among the traffickers of white slavery. White slavery is sometimes perpetrated by white people and sometimes by people of other races. Human trafficking of any race doesn't contain consensual contracts between people. Indentured servitude existed among white people and other races as well. It was sometimes consensual and sometimes it was good, sometimes it was bad.

I actually didn't identify anyone as the root of all evil. I didn't talk about evil at all. I talked about consensual slavery. And consensual slavery in the United States today, in consent based relationships with power differentials and ownership between partners is actually predominantly among white people. There are some people of other races but it is predominantly a white demographic. It also, is not evil, because it is consensual.

History can be full and at the same time have rarity. It's called time. Humans have been recording history for how long now? You can have rare examples from specific eras, or among specific races but when you add up all the examples they have a fullness to them. I understand that the complexity of humanity isn't always black and white and it is easier if you can't have it both ways, but sometimes you can have it both ways and still be telling the truth. Rarity and fullness are not mutually exclusive terms. Both words can actually be used in different ways, and then context is important. Time and recorded history is a very broad context that allows for two seemingly opposite words to actually function at the same time and do not equal each other out.

I also understand that it is more comfortable for people to believe that a topic like slavery is only 'one way'. That it was bad and there are no shades of grey only shades of black and white. But that isn't true. People have been enslaving other people since the beginning of time. You find it among the Vikings, among the American Indians, among the Druids, among the Aztecs, etc. on and on. You find it among people of the same races, among people of the same classes/castes, and among people of the same religions.

It is fine for you to have your belief about what slavery is and isn't but based both on my unique experiences and education, slavery isn't always bad. I'm allowed to have my belief and to say it openly too.

Who polishes poo? Seriously? Read a book. Try reading a book that does more than just confirm your own bias.

78

Judge Orders Jehovah's Witnesses to turn over Internal Documents re: Childhood Sexual Abuse

by AndersonsInfo in

https://nixlaw.com/news/judge-orders-jehovahs-witnesses-to-turn-over-internal-documents-related-to-childhood-sexual-abuse/.

judge orders jehovah’s witnesses to turn over internal documents related to childhood sexual abuse.

april 12, 2018. .

jwundubbed

This is nothing new. The JW have been ordered to turn over documents in many cases and have refused in many cases. They are then found to be in contempt of court and are fined, usually a daily sum until they produce the ordered documents. I don't have the link but in one case it was like $4,000 every day they didn't produce the documents. Months later they were still in contempt of court.

I hope these victims get what they are asking for, but I'm not optimistic about their chances.

18

JW's are slaves- but not in a good way

by joey jojo in

i was reading about the american slave trade again recently.

as anyone who has read anything about the subject knows, it makes for very uncomfortable reading.

every time i read the history, i'm left with a sense of outrage and seething anger at the pure inhumanity and injustice of what life must have been like for those people.

jwundubbed

First time I hear that there's a good way of being a slave.

Well, there is a good way. It is called a consent based relationship. People willingly go into a contract fully informed, having negotiated terms and consenting to follow certain roles/rules. This types is not found in the black slave trade. It isn't found in the white human trafficking slave trade. It wasn't among white men who made slaves of indigenous people, though it was sometimes found among indigenous people who made slaves of white people or foreigners. It is found in the indentured servants of the 1800s England and America. It is found in ancient Rome, ancient Greece, and a whole bunch of different eras and societies. You just have to look a little harder for it. Even in this type of slavery, there are abusers and predators. That happens everywhere humans are. But you can find some amazing stories of real life atypical stories. You just have to look for them.

In ancient Rome, there were certain slave positions that were sought after and had an elevated status. Most people don't want to be slaves and that is when it is bad and wrong. But history is actually full of examples (rare though they may be) of people who actually went into slavery willingly. Slaves had something that some other people didn't have. They had a roof over their heads, fully bellies, and even protection from harm. If you had an owner that treated slaves well, if you have a higher status, etc. then slavery wasn't always the worst thing in the world.

There are also forms of prostitutes in some former societies that had a slave status which gave women certain freedoms. The Hetaera of ancient Greece were one of these. They were like really highly educated and high priced companions. They couldn't marry at the highest level of society but once they worked off their service term then they were able to work for themselves. They were highly educated and had a very high status in society. They were often able to own land, have their own slaves, hold positions in government, and had the ability to acquire large amounts of money. Their counterparts (free women of high social status/class) who were able to marry, had much more limited rights and were always under the thumb of their husbands or other male relatives.

So... yeah... there actually are good kinds of slavery.

25

Cart witnessing at the Toyota Grand Prix

by Dagney in

jw
friends

picture 185,000 people on the streets attending the biggest event in long beach.

there is a main downtown street which is the only way into the grand prix.

it’s chaos because it is not private property that can be contained; these are working boulevards with cars and people vying to get where they want to go.

jwundubbed

You didn't rush over and take all their publicactiosn? You could have thrown them all away in or out of their site.

You could also call the people responsible for allowing them in and explain that what they are offering is hate propaganda. No one wants that kind of reputation these days.

33

Let's talk business ...

by dubstepped in

jw
friends

i am thinking that this could be an interesting topic.

most of us never had a chance to go to college, many of us were involved in various service industries like cleaning and such, and we have had some limitations placed on us.

so i thought it might be interested to see what has worked for people, what hasn't, what the progression has been, where people went wrong and where they got it right.

jwundubbed

I came from poverty and I'm still poor. The one job I really wanted was to be a mother and I can't do that. For the record, they don't adopt kids out to poor people, and for good reason. But even if they did, for health reasons, the better choice is to not have children. There are a lot of jobs I can't do for health reasons. I'm a good teacher. Teaching does not pay the bills. None of the things that I find joy in, pay the bills. And I'm not good at doing things that I can't find any joy in.

I haven't found success in business yet. But I did do one thing that I will count towards any success that I do eventually achieve. I went back to college. I had started in my early twenties and dropped out to deal with (diagnosed) extreme PTSD. I would tell anyone who is older and wants to go to college to go for it. I know this is true in the US. Ever since the recession hit in 2008 a LOT of older people have gone to college to change careers or to go into a career. I went back at the age of 35 or so and there were a lot of other non-traditional (older) students.

I'm actually planning on going back for my graduate degree in the next 2 years. I have some health problems at the moment that I want under better control before I get into school (which takes a lot of energy and self-motivation at the graduate level). I'll most likely be going for Teaching English to Speakers of Other Languages (TESOL) so that I can teach adults in college or high school most likely. It isn't a real productive career choice under the current administration. Trump has made the USA a very unfriendly place for foreigners, so that's lovely. And I won't be living in other countries to teach due to my health problems. But I might get to travel and see something of the world. That would be nice. I could make a real difference to some people in the world, and that is a decent second best to having children.

I'm currently disenfranchised with my career choices and options. I'm usually a very positive person. If I could go back and do it over knowing what I know now.... I would do everything differently. Everything. But I made the best choices I could at each point I had to make choices. Wait till I have a permanent job and benefits. Then my tune will be much more positive.

28

2018-Message From Watchtower Informant!

by Atlantis in

jw
friends

from one of our informants inside the watchtower.

(same person whosent us videos from the legal dept., accounting dept., pioneer school,and so forth.

) atlantis told him that he is walking on a razors edge,to be extremely careful.his email message:1. watch tower has no right to demand you to sign a consent form.

jwundubbed

Personal information is valuable... when it is formatted in easy-to-access types of information. Does anyone know what software they use to store the information? After seeing their website I have serious doubts that they would store the information in any usable format.

I'm not worried about the JWs having my information. There are so many groups mining the personal information from people in so many ways (facebook, phone data, etc.) that I find it impossible to really care that they have my information. You know the government already has 'records' on us, no matter what government you are under. I am certain that the IRS and the FBI have records on me already... and so far... there hasn't been a single reason to get all hyper about it. I can't stop it. I can't stop it being shared. And what does it really do to me? It hurts my credit score which is already so far in the crapper that additional information is merely annoying because they insist on reminding me of it.

So... this seems like a big deal to a lot of people, but I just don't see any reason to worry about it. I definitely do not care if they have a record on me. They have no power over me and keeping records on me only fills up their paper/digital files. It doesn't hurt me in the least.

And as to being a whistle blower... if I can be scared away by them having kept personal information on me, then I have no right to be a whistle-blower. You have to have a hard shell and hard skin if you are going to call a powerful group to the floor. You better be ready for them to fight dirty. They might even make stuff up. It is way better to acknowledge that they fight dirty and have your answer ready to defend yourself against that kind of crap behavior. Them keeping records makes them look bad, especially if they keep records on people who grew up in their organization. That is all kinds of creepy.

So where does the Freedom of Information Act fall into all of this. My understanding is that if the Information Act applies to a group, they can't deny you access to your records but they can charge you for the copies they send you.

9

WT rules about forgiving a cheating mate

by Addison0998 in

i hate the rule about if your mate cheats on you, and you have sex with them, you are not free to remarry because the sex means you forgave them and keeps you stuck with them!

i personally disagree and think it’s so controlling that they think they can dictate what goes on behind closed doors between two consenting, legally married married people.

and that they think they have the right to label what other people’s sex means.

jwundubbed

Also, don't forget that it is adultry when a person is raped. And by the cult's standards one cannot rape (or be raped by) their spouse. And if it is a child that is raped, then they are guilty of having sex before marriage.