Maybe the JWs have always been part of the world. After all the only difference between them and the rest of the world is how they see themselves. Everyone else considers them part of the whole world.
jwundubbed
JoinedPosts by jwundubbed
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Maybe Witnesses are the "world"
by nowawake14 ini just realized that maybe witnesses are the world, because of all the hypocrisy ive seen with my own eyes.
alot of the jw kids (not all) ive been around acted "worldier" than the average person.
it sucked.
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What's the best way to...
by jwundubbed ini am working on writing my autobiography.
i want to be able to use academic research as well as personal experience in my book.
and i would like to look at resources that members here would recommend.
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jwundubbed
@Tenacious, Thank you so much! That is exactly the kind of information I was looking for.
@Sigfrid Mallozzi, I do not have formal training in psychology and I don't want to sound like I do. But I did learn a lot about the mechanisms of cults and the mechanisms of survival and recovery through my journey in leaving. At some point I left all of that behind. At the time I needed the distance. But that was a big part of my journey, so I'm looking to find that information again to use in describing my journey, through my own eyes, but also using language that is from a few different perspectives than my own. The various perspectives and the associated language played a bit part in my recovery. Thanks so much for your advice. I will have to see if I can still log into my college search engines as well. That is a great idea!
@apostatethunder, Yes. I do want to do some of that as well.
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What's the best way to...
by jwundubbed ini am working on writing my autobiography.
i want to be able to use academic research as well as personal experience in my book.
and i would like to look at resources that members here would recommend.
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jwundubbed
I am working on writing my autobiography. I want to be able to use academic research as well as personal experience in my book. And I would like to look at resources that members here would recommend. I know that starting a new topic is a great way to go, but then what subject area should I put it in? Any other recommendations for looking up this question in the search field?
Using this site, what is the best way to find resources on leaving or recovering from a cult from a mental health point of view? Using psychology and understanding the mechanisms of how a cult operates, then using the same language of therapists and counselors to discuss and explain how a person recovers from having been in a cult. This is what I'm looking for. This site is a mountain of wealth of information on personal points of view. But I know I've read posts from people who look at the mechanisms of cults and have discussed some of the things they learned through therapy and etc.
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I’m so sad . . .
by HappyBlessedFree inso my husband asked me if i’m going to the memorial.
i said “no”.. he asked would it be okay if i take the kids.
“i would prefer that you didn’t”.. why can’t he see the lies!
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jwundubbed
My dad had questions pretty early on after joining up. But he stayed in and raised his kids in it. I know that he and others either had questions or their cognitive dissonance wasn't fully intact because I remember get-togethers where he and my mom, and the parents of two other families would talk about what they disagreed with and what didn't make sense. It was a lot like the conversations here on this site. I know he had questions of his own because I remember him learning Greek so that he could read the Greek scriptures trying to translate them himself. I remember him sitting in the KH with a Greek scriptures bible studying it hard while the meeting went on.
Having overheard those conversations when i was a kid, actually helped me when I left. There was logic and reasoning in those conversations. Those conversations made my own questions feel less stupid. Those conversations helped me use my own logic and reasoning.
What I don't understand to this day, is why my dad had questions and didn't share them with us. He has a lot of guilt now for raising us kids to be JWs. And in my mind, I feel that is a reasonable feeling for him to have. He had the questions but he never gave us the tools he had. He joined up. He had a huge frame of reference that us kids were never privy to. He could have shared that with us.
I mean, if you really want your kids to make up their own minds then you have to give them all the tools. Not just 'the truth'. You need to help them learn how to think critically, logically, and with reason. You need to show them how important context is. You need to give them a frame of reference. What my Dad did right was that he made us kids look up and write a report on all the religions we didn't celebrate. He made us use resources outside of the JW books. So we learned the truth about the holidays and where they came from. Then we talked about the JW beliefs for not celebrating... but we ended up agreeing that we shouldn't be celebrating pagan celebrations because we aren't pagan. We didn't agree to not celebrate because we were JWs. That is critical thinking and it means we held the same practices as the JWs, but we had logic and reasoning that works behind our actions. That was pretty smart of our dad.
So, why not let them go to the memorial and then have a talk about what happened, why, what it means, etc. Give them crticial thinking choices now. Really offer your kids ideas and options. Your kids aren't stupid. And they aren't too young to talk about anything if those things are discussed with knowledge.
I grew up hearing about incest, rape, masturabation, and etc. and it was inappropriate because it was all taken out of context, some of it was abiguous while other parts were graphically clear, and none of it had any real logic or reasoning. I remember the bible story book about Dinah. She layed down with a man and then a lot of people were murdered. If anyone had ever said, no that isn't what happened. That man forced her to have sex with him. He hurt her. But their laws said that everything was okay because he married her. She was still hurt and her brothers were angry. That is all very understandable. There is logic and understanding in that story. It never made sense to me the way the JW presented it. And even worse it made me feel even more scared of normal choices because all that girl did was lie down next to someone.
If it were me... I would (if I were emotionally capable) I would go with my children. And then I would give them the tools to see it for what it is. I would help them. I would allow them to have good or bad feelings about it. But I would discuss everything they saw and why. And then I would take them to midnight mass or another Catholic ceremony where the members all get up and partake. And I would discuss that and how it is different and why it happens. And then I would see if there were any other religions that have any similar ceremonies and see if I could have my children attend. And we would talk and discuss afterwards each time. I would give my children a frame of reference of their own, because I don't have a frame of reference myself. If you can't attend other ceremonies then you can certainly look them up and learn and discuss them. Even if your husband is there, the same way my mother was there, you can have these discussions. Knowledge is power. Teaching your children about other religions isn't wrong in the JWs. You can give them critical thinking skills even if your husband is telling them what to think. You can also teach your kids to play chess or any game of logic. You can discuss anything with your kids using logic and critical thinking and it will help them fight the cognitive dissonance.
You can't make other people see what they don't want to see. But you can give your children options and tools and you can help them to be critical thinkers. Critical thinking is always a first step in leaving the cult because the cult doesn't make any real sense. Both of my parents taught myself and my siblings to be critical thinkers. Three of us left the cult. One stayed in because she can pretend to live in her perfect world that she controls. You can't make people see what they don't want to see.
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How many would leave the organization right now if the shunning rule was removed?
by HiddenPimo indream scenario: everyone is made aware of all the wrongs, the false prophecies / csa problem / double standards - .
and they would not shun, how many would jump ship?.
my parents are fully aware of the sins of the org.
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jwundubbed
and they would not shun, how many would jump ship?
If they stopped shunning, how many that have left would return?
I wouldn't.
And to be honest, I wouldn't suddenly start talking to the people who shunned me. There is something wrong with their moral compass. I have never shunned anyone in my life. I have set and kept boundaries. But I have never cut anyone off and treated them like they were dead because they didn't comply with my opinions or beliefs. I have never cut anyone off and treated them like they were dead because of any rumored difference in beliefs. People who do that aren't healthy people. In fact, they are so unhealthy that they infect other people with their mental disease. They harm people all by themselves and just having their doctrine altered won't change how unhealthy, harmful, and abusive they are. They have to put in the time and the effort to make those changes themselves, just like all of us have had or do have to do. Then, they also need to make amends and apologize for their actions. They have to hold themselves accountable for their choices and their actions. I don't know about anyone else, but in my experience the people who shun aren't people who hold themselves accountable for their choice in that matter.
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"I don't want to hear any negative comments about the truth"
by days of future passed intoday the "anointed" sister that drops off tracts at my house, did a little i'll just stop by and show her a website about furniture and then offer the memorial tract visit.. her exhusband is a jw that did terrible things to her by taking property, didn't want to pay adequate child support and had the elders on his side.
she was telling me all about how, because he felt so guilty, now he had intestinal problems.
eventually the conversation ended and she offered the memorial tract to me.. "did you get an invitation?
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jwundubbed
Are there any truths that have zero negative points?
I think you should listen to her. She told you she doesn't want to hear anything negative about her truth. So, why keep pushing? Basically she told you that she wants to bury her head in the sand. If it were me, I would make her a deal. I wouldn't tell her anything negative about the truth and she would stop talking about it completely,. stop inviting me to join it. I like truths that are complex. I like knowing all the pros and cons and making up my own mind on something. Having made up my mind, I would ask her to respect my choice and I would respect hers in return.
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How many would leave the organization right now if the shunning rule was removed?
by HiddenPimo indream scenario: everyone is made aware of all the wrongs, the false prophecies / csa problem / double standards - .
and they would not shun, how many would jump ship?.
my parents are fully aware of the sins of the org.
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jwundubbed
Everyone against the 'no blood' rule. Everyone who realizes that the entire foundation of doctrine is utter and complete nonsense. Everyone who recognizes bigotry and feels it is wrong. Everyone who watched the Sophia videos taking money from children and associating homosexuals with bombs on planes. Everyone who is left in the cold when the GB closes and sells their KHs without any concern for them. Everyone effected by all the pedophiles that the organization is protecting. In essence all the same people who do and have always left for reasons other than emotional blackmail.
People have always stayed despite all the arguments against the JWs. People have always left when they felt compelled to do so for a variety of different reasons. There are so many variables that make those decisions that simplifying the choice, to stay or leave, down to one or two reasons is naive.
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Are you a Child Abuse Survivor willing to help “Change Laws and Change Lives”? Read on...
by AndersonsInfo inare you a child abuse survivor willing to help “change laws and change lives”?.
do you agree that “reporting abuse is the key to prevention and the start of heal...ing”?.
as president of scaars, (stop child abuse – advocates for reform and safety), a non-profit lobbying corporation, i’m writing to inform you that arrangements have been made where abuse survivors can speak with policymakers at the california capitol in sacramento, specifically on january 15th and 16th.
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jwundubbed
Do you agree that “Reporting abuse is the key to prevention and the start of heal...ing”?
No. That puts the onus of change on the survivors. It can take survivors of child abuse up to 30 years to be ready to report their cases. Reporting isn't as big of an issue as statute of limitations. You can finally get up the nerve to say something only to find out that the time limit is up and you have no recourse even though you get to live all that time and for the rest of your life with the repercussions of what happened to you.
Reporting is not the key to preventing abuse. Having zero statute of limitations and having prosecutions that fit the crime are the key. Put the onus of change onto the legal system where it needs to be instead of putting all the pressure on the victims to report the abuse.
Healing starts with the person who was abused and is helped when they know that person can't hurt more people. Healing comes when justice is served. Just reporting the abuse can be as traumatizing as the abuse itself, because our legal system tends to victimize the victims all over again and then the criminals get minor sentences for their heinous crimes.
If you mean, that people like the JWs should be required by law to take reports of sexual abuse to governmental authorities, well that would be a step in the right direction and it will help prevent FURTHER abuse... but it won't prevent the abuse that already happened. Reporting abuse, doesn't stop a person from abusing more people. Having the right laws in place and having longer prison times for those criminals will prevent further abuse of children.
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It baffles me why they would even say this
by Tameria2001 inback in 2001, i left the jws rather abruptly.
i had discovered things about the watchtower that really made me quite angry, angry because i had been lied to, and it took me just to darn long to figure it out.
before i had left, my husband and i wrote 3 letters, one to the elders at our congregation, and two to our parents.
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jwundubbed
Okay... but take a minute to take the cult out of it. These women are from the same generation of men AND women who decide to stay in loveless marriages because they made that choice, because you don't change your mind, because they have invested too much into their lives as they are.
Times have changed. People get divorced, they change careers. But people of a certain generation and older generations aren't as flexible nor as changeable.
I think this could be a generational thing as much as it is anything else.
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I Saw An Elder Yesterday Who Told Me 3 Area Kingdom Halls Were Being Dissolved
by minimus inhe said they read the letter to the congregation and were told the kh would be disbanded.
2 other halls in the area were slated for closure.
he said many people in the congregation began crying.
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jwundubbed
After that bunker video came out, I worried that the GB would order everyone to build bunkers, then tell them the end was here and make them hole themselves in while the GB ran off with their monies.
If this is how it ends... I will be relieved. I had one congregation that felt like home. Our Kingdom Hall had been donated by my best friend's family. They lived right next door and did all the upkeep. People were worried when they did some renovations but nothing changed so much that it took away what we loved about our KH. If I were still in and at risk of losing that KH... that it was being dissolved and sold off... that would give me a reason to stop going. I always felt very protective and territorial about my KH. If this helps people fade out... then I am all for it.