Posts by SEAKEN2001

15

Concerning Santa Claus

by Duncan in

jw
friends

i thought id post this now, because firstly were just coming into that time of year, and secondly the thread started by mulan called confession got into this subject and started me thinking.. i couldve posted this as a reply in that thread, i suppose, but i wanted to discuss it separately.

besides, its been months since i saw my name up there in a thread started by capacity, so i thought it was time.

concerning santa claus, then.. the whole christmas issue is, of course, one of the meanest, most joy-denying, life-diminishing teachings in the whole miserable jw mindset.

SEAKEN2001

Duncan,

I'm in full agreement. (Or is is "spot on!" you say in the UK?)

You're right on the target about the "game". It is fantasy and is actually quite beneficial for the little ones as they grow to learn the difference between fantasy and lies. The JW's go way overboard in branding such fantasies "lies". But then they go way over on most things!

BTW, I know you guys adore your "football" matches much the same as we do our version played with an oval ball where we can legally touch the ball with our hands but kicking it is a foul most of the time. I was just thinking while watching what we call "soccer" that I much preferred playing soccer to watching it on the TV. Same goes for hockey. But I suppose the in-stadium watching is preferrable to TV. I imagine you have your versions of, say, the "Hogs" (fans of Washington Redskins)or "Cheesheads" (Greenbay Packers). Some fans really get carried away don't they?

Sean

14

What would happen if Bethal closed tomorrow?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

what would happen if bethal closed tomorrow?.

what do you think.how would witnesses react?.

do you think they would just carry on as normal or take it as a sign that they were wrong?.

SEAKEN2001

I'm not sure what you mean by "Bethal"(sic).

Some here obviuosly view Brooklyn headquarters as "Bethel". But many JW's, especially outside of US see their own local Branch location as Bethel. Many see Bethel as the entire structure of the headquarters system including all branches and printeries or farms worldwide. The Society sems to favor the latter whe it publishes information on the "Bethel Family", meaning those living anywhere in the worldwide network of headquarters facilities.

If you mean "the GB" or "oversight" of the organization in general as symbolized by the term "Society" than I would answer that most JW's would see it as the beginning of something big, maybe an attack by Satan or his "world" or some disciplinary or organizational move by "Jehovah". What actually would shake out in the organizational scheme of things is anyones guess. I'm sure most JW's would try to stick to organizational procedure and treat the situation as going "underground" until the reorganization can be "directed" to it's completion by God's spirit.

Have any of us forgotten how much we adored the Organization and treated it like God itself? Don't expect the JW's to just go into anarchy because headquarters shuts down. And there are not enough JW's yet who understand that something is really wrong with the theology.

Sean

31

confession

by Mulan in

jw
friends

i haven't told this to very many people, so here goes.. when i was a child, my parents became jw's (i was almost 5), so i had celebrated christmas a few times, but have few memories of it, other than the bubble lights, and a huge tree and my grandparent's house.

when we stopped celebrating it, i didn't really "get it", and i still believed in santa claus.

i just thought he didn't come to our house anymore.

SEAKEN2001

My take is this:

You might as well let the child decide for himself/herself what to "believe" with regard to fantasy/mystery. This will prepare them for the inevitable. They are going to face lies and liars many times in their life. The sooner they learn to distinguish a lie from reality the better. And it's not really that Santa or the Easter Bunny are lies to children, they are fantasy, or pictorial of some mystery of life. Who can explain to a child the concept of charitable giving or sacrafice and not wrap it in some mysterious illustration to make it easier for a childs mind to grasp. The same holds for God and Satan and Demons. Forcing your kids to believe is fruitless. Let them work it for themselves and you will be teaching them to think critically and allowing them to use their own imagination.

I wouldn't recommend any one treatment of the Santa or God issues. Each child is an individual and needs to be respected as an independant thinker. True, as little ones they have less knowledge and are liable to believe in things that are unreal and rediculous from the standpoint of someone older. At some point in their life the timing will be right for them to dispell the illusion and swallow some more reality. That will keep happening all their lives until eventually they get used to digesting the mystery of life for themsleves rather than leaning on the opinions of others.

For some kids Santa will be real for a time. For others he will not. For some Christmas will have a meaning and will compell them to act in some way in the spirit they percieve to be behind the Christmas tradition. Some will never understand even the spirit of Christmas and refuse to participate in what they see as a "lie" and forced behavior. The same can be said about God in our tradition. Kids will ultimately believe what their own experiences have shaped them to believe. What we believe in really does not change the reality of things does it? But it does affect how we live and how we treat other people. So, I would say it's important to explore the mind and personality of your own children and help them work through the mystery without telling them what to believe. Then support their ideas as long a they are making good decisions. Direct them as needed to correct obvious blunders that could end up hurting themsleves or others. But allow for fantasy and imagination as a tool for building the psyche of the young child in preparation for adult life where they will most certainly need the skill to sort out fantasy from reality.

Too much psycho-babble right? All this to say let the kids decide as you help them learn how to use their own brain. Don't ever lie to them but allow room for fantasy and help them learn to distinguish the difference.

Sean

12

Following Threads where I have posted

by SEAKEN2001 in

jw
friends

i just figured out today how to bypass the login sequences every time i reply to a thread.

but i am still miffed that i cannot follow the threads i have posted in without hunting through all the topics, some of which i may have no interest in.

is there a way on this board to track my own posts?

SEAKEN2001

Hey Simon!

You did it! Those little icons under the profile are just what we needed. The one that allows you to see the threads posted to is very useful. Way to go!

Thanks,
Sean

63

A New Breed Of JW Emerging?

by Englishman in

jw
friends

is there a new breed of jw emerging, i wonder?.

i know that there are lots of real brainwashed dubs around who see demons behind every car boot sale item and who scuttle off to the elders with every bit of tittle-tattle imaginable, but, i think that there is a new type of dub who quietly does just as he / she pleases.. this is what i think: many of the long-serving jw's who have seen the 1975 failure and the 1914 generation change are now approaching old age with something of a jaundiced eye, and are choosing to do their own thing in their remaining years.

in conversations i am picking up it seems that the elders are being regarded somewhat derisively by many jw's.

SEAKEN2001

I was surprised that my wife got so involved with her 20th year class reunion. She was on the committee no less! (I even got recruited to help at the picnic) In my days it was not considered appropriate behavior to "associate" with worldly people. I do not know how if she mentioned this to any of her "elders" but she enjoyed herslef very much. I was delighted that she could mix with "wordly" people so nicely. Sure had a hell of a lot more fun than with the dubs! She even went to the local bar with the gang!

I called her on this a few days later and mentioned that I was surprised that JW's had changed so much. I challenged her again to make a defense for her beliefs. She hasn't brought it up since. But she made it to the meeting Sunday. Perhaps that was her penance.

I had a girlfriend when I was a pioneer who said she thought she could go out with the boy and get drunk and make out and then go to the meetings and put in pioneer hours and it would be ok. I could not believe she could think that way. I guess I was a hard-liner and she was a socialite. I think there are going to be less hard-liners as things shake out over the years. But there will be a lot of hard-liners who will put the screws on a lot of their "brothers" in the meantime. Godamn bullies will make the lives of some innocent people pretty uncomfortable.

I agree E-man. I think we're witnessing a change in the average witness.

Sean

91

WHAT`s YOUR FAVORITE BEER!

by OUTLAW in

jw
friends

i like molson canadian,except when i`m out of the country.then i only drink imported beer...molson canadian.

SEAKEN2001

I'd have to go with Saranac Black & Tan cause it's good and local. But back home in Seattle I liked Red Hook's Ballard Bitter and Black Hook Porter. Guiness draft is always good when I go out.

In light fare I prefer Heineken, Carte Blanc, and Corona.

I like to try all sorts of micro brews here. Some don't cut it but there are lots of good ales here in the Northeast. Woodstock Brewery and Brooklyn are tops.

Sean

Bruce, you're killing me! <g> ROTFLMAO

45

Latest UN info; 7:00 pm eastern time

by biblexaminer in

latest un information as of 7:00 pm eastern time (canada/us).

i spoke to the man who heads the ngo office at united nations headquarters.

i will not release his name at this point because i was asked not to by the individual who gave me the contact information.

SEAKEN2001

BX,

keep up the great work! Old Hippie has been appropriately chastised and I hope he appologizes for his insensitivity. I feel you pain.

Thanks for all you are doing,
Sean

45

Latest UN info; 7:00 pm eastern time

by biblexaminer in

latest un information as of 7:00 pm eastern time (canada/us).

i spoke to the man who heads the ngo office at united nations headquarters.

i will not release his name at this point because i was asked not to by the individual who gave me the contact information.

SEAKEN2001

OldHippie,

you're WAY out of line here. It is no stretch of the imagination to believe that one can lose everything when they stand against the "Society". Why don't you try to write them a letter questioning their claim of being directed by Holy Spirit and that the evidence is to the contrary. Or, do you still believe they are God's "channel" for truth? The threat to BibleExaminer and others is real. You are only fantasizing if you think otherwise. Show us that you are willing to risk your wife, kids, job, and property before you denegrate the willingness of others to do so.

Sean

45

MAJOR MAJOR UN/WTS NEWS - PART 2 - BREAKING HARD

by hawkaw in

flash - major breaking!!!!!!!.

i just talked to paul hoeffel 1:35pm - he phoned me.. okay people.

i can now confirm that the watchtower has provided a letter in writing to dpi indicating that the wts has "disassociated" themselves from dpi - ie the wts has made it offical that they have quit.. i can also confirm that the wts has been updating dpi regularily as they are suppose to over the last 10 years.. i can also can say that something is in the works that i can disclose by hopeflly tomorrow.

SEAKEN2001

I add my thanks to Hawk, MA, Mac, and all the others who worked on this UN/NGO angle. Great job!

Sean

21

UN PO Spin

by messenger in

jw
friends

i spoke to a friend this morning who is a sister.

she asked her po last night about the un issue.

his first response was where did you get your information?

SEAKEN2001

Hey Kent,

Are you the one who knows how to crack through all the security firewalls, like the UNs servers, and update their data? Cool!!!

These people just don't stop do they? Anything to protect "Jehovah's precious name". I'm about to barf!

I'm sure the WTS won't object to that rumor getting around around. Yeah, apostates did it. That's the ticket. Crafty, security hacking, apostates.

Good grief!
Sean