Posts by SEAKEN2001

27

A DARK DAY INDEED

by Incense_and_Peppermints in

jw
friends

when we put the fellings and whims of a few disgruntled "active" jehovah's witnesses who come to these boards before the intense feelings, thoughtful commentary or adult playfulness of the majority of posters here - ex witnesses, so-called apostates, etc.

don't call me jaded or an advocate of anarchy or harm to my fellow man just because i believe in freedom of expression.

i am a good kind loving person!

SEAKEN2001

Hi I&P,

many of us have had times when we got upset by this forum and have taken a break. That may be a good thing for you. But it's not really a dark day. We're just having a difference of opinion. This is one of the things that many of us have a problem with given our JW background. I think it's important to face the discomfort and try to work through it. Taking a break can help and you will likely talk it over in your own mind and make a more clear decision after your angst has subsided. I hope you decide to stay and contribute. I enjoy your comments.

I think Simon made it clear that he didn't want that particular type of thread to become the most prominant topic on the board. Obviously the thread was very active and will remain one of the most popular topics on the stats page for awhile. I don't think it was a personal moral choice but a business decision (if I may borrow the phrase, realizing this forum is not Simon's business). No business decision will satisfy everyone but it has to be made for the good of the entity, to aid it's survival, etc. All society works this way. This again is part of the real world. All this rhetoric about whether it is or isn't moral to post nude pics or talk about sex in public is completely beside the point with respect to closing the thread. If Simon really thought there was a moral issue he would have deleted the entire thread.

I do think that this discussion about the morality of the thread is appropriate and I applaud Dutchie for being strong enough to face the music, probably knowing full well that her opinion on this matter would not be shared by several fellow posters. This is precisely the kind of stuff that most of us have been deprived of in our life as JW's. As JW's we could not express our personal opinons on this subject, along with every other subject. If we step back awhile and seperate the act of closing the thread in question from this overall discussion (in several threads now) I think we can all appreciate that there is a lot of value here. I hope many of us can learn and absorb some new things. I hope I&P and Dutchie, and several others, can manage to get along even without sharing the same sexual moral code. (I say sexual moral code because moral are about much more than sex and nudity and this discussion has focussed primarily on that limited subject).

Sean

205

Sometimes I Am Ashamed

by Dutchie in

jw
friends

does every issue of morality have to be compared with the thinking and teaching of jehovahs witnesses?

simply because you are no longer jehovahs witnesses does that mean that you flaunt all moral authority and engaged in any perverted pleasure that you have a mind to?

because your morality is no longer legislated by a pseudo religious organization does that give you license to engage in all acts of "immorality" and refer to it "as just having fun.

SEAKEN2001

I like to think of this place as a slice of the real world. A place where the unreal world of the WTS becomes obvious and unappealing. I know I don't have the same ideas about morals as everybody else here but that's part of what makes this place one of the best places for those trying to de-program themselves from the mind control of the WTS cult.

I am convinced that the moral ideas espoused by the WTS are unhealthy. I also feel the same about Christian "morals" in general. I liked some of the comments about morals being personal and I agree with them. Perhaps being faced with the moral choices of others will help us refine our own and be less critical. I don't think anybody will really be helped by trying to protect them from what we may feel is degrading. These are not children and infants. The people we can help are adults and it's far past time for them to face up to reality.

People must choose for themselves what they will avoid and what is objectionable to them. But I pity the one who thinks they must avoid all things they find objectionable. A lot we face in life is objectionable. How we learn to handle it in our own minds and maintain out own positive outlook is what is most beneficial. I have viewed many films wherein I have watched some things I found particularly revolting. Yet I have broadened my understanding of people in general and I continue to have my own ideas of what is best for me. I do not share Dutchie's concern but I do appreciate her view. I only hope that this place remains as free as it has been till now.

Sean

33

Animation graphics in the text field

by SEAKEN2001 in

jw
friends

i know some of you are not going to appreciate this and it probably won't start a movement that will affect a change but it will make me feel better to rant.. i find it very distracting to have moving graphics in the field of text, where we are supposed to be reading.

perhaps many of you are used to listening to the radio while studying for a test, as i have often seen depicted on tv, presumably in humor.

it may be humorous but it is not conducive to actual retention and meaningful meditation.

SEAKEN2001

Princess, HAHA! Yeah, I remember. Oh, the things we did at Tawano. We were regular juvenile delinquents! Should I be careful when standing near water and you're nearby? :)

Sean

57

Pending Tragedy for the WTS and JWs

by Lee Elder in

jw
friends

pending tragedy for the wts and jws.

the heavy-handed tactics of the leaders of the watchtower society have begun to bear rotten fruit.

i suspect that it is just a matter of time before the need arises to coin some phrase to describe disfellowshipped or disassociated jehovah's witnesses who bomb conventions, shoot up kingdom halls or even attack bethel facilities.. leaders of the wts (and local elders) should stop and think about the lessons to be learned from columbine high school, the postal service (i.e.

SEAKEN2001

IW,

I'm not going to get off topic here and debate what Lincoln did. You will notice I did not mention either Lincoln or the war. You made a statement that you thought violence is NEVER right. I disagree and cited a couple of examples. I maintain that slavery would not have been abolished in this country without violence. You are reading more than I am writing.

I am on the side of those here who do not want to see violence used against the WTS. However, I do see the potential for such action on the part of some very angry and dis-gruntled former members or associates. That is what Lee was pointing out, and I agree with him. Too many here are taking off on this and suggesting that he somehow is whipping up a mob for violence. That's rediculous and obvioulsy not the case, as anyone with a logical mind can determine. Please do not put words into the mouths of others. Your emotions are getting away from you. Take a pill, or go for a swim around that island you are on.

Sean

Edited by - seaken2001 on 9 June 2002 9:1:30

57

Pending Tragedy for the WTS and JWs

by Lee Elder in

jw
friends

pending tragedy for the wts and jws.

the heavy-handed tactics of the leaders of the watchtower society have begun to bear rotten fruit.

i suspect that it is just a matter of time before the need arises to coin some phrase to describe disfellowshipped or disassociated jehovah's witnesses who bomb conventions, shoot up kingdom halls or even attack bethel facilities.. leaders of the wts (and local elders) should stop and think about the lessons to be learned from columbine high school, the postal service (i.e.

SEAKEN2001

Well, I say keep it.

I disagree, IW. Sometimes violence is necessary, as was demonstrated when this country decided to abolish slavery. Or, when a murderer needs to be put to death. However, I did not get the impression that Lee was in any way sponsoring some violent action. It was clear to me that he was only pointing out that similar violent acts could be perpetrated by angry people who feel justified in lashing out in a similar fashion as has been witnessed already in other like circumstances. Continued heavy-handed action on the part of the WTS could indeed trigger such events. It is a logical and appropriate warning.

Sean

33

Animation graphics in the text field

by SEAKEN2001 in

jw
friends

i know some of you are not going to appreciate this and it probably won't start a movement that will affect a change but it will make me feel better to rant.. i find it very distracting to have moving graphics in the field of text, where we are supposed to be reading.

perhaps many of you are used to listening to the radio while studying for a test, as i have often seen depicted on tv, presumably in humor.

it may be humorous but it is not conducive to actual retention and meaningful meditation.

SEAKEN2001

haha, nice try bnallistic. That's a far cry from the results I was looking for.

btw, I switched off the animations as you suggested and forgot about it. I knew that would happen. I was wondering why some sites were different. I'm going back now to turn it back on. Then I can see Princess's and JB's nice animations again! [g]

Sean

33

Animation graphics in the text field

by SEAKEN2001 in

jw
friends

i know some of you are not going to appreciate this and it probably won't start a movement that will affect a change but it will make me feel better to rant.. i find it very distracting to have moving graphics in the field of text, where we are supposed to be reading.

perhaps many of you are used to listening to the radio while studying for a test, as i have often seen depicted on tv, presumably in humor.

it may be humorous but it is not conducive to actual retention and meaningful meditation.

SEAKEN2001

Yes, ballistic, that does work. But I like to use the same browser for all my web surfing. I have to remember to go into Tools/Options on each site depending on whether I do or don't want animations, etc. It's only on discussion forums that I prefer text only and I bounce around to other sites where I do want to see the animations, etc.

Like I said, it was just a rant. I'm a hold over from the days of text-only messaging and it just irritates me to have all these images all over the place while I'm trying to read. Thanks for the tip though. Maybe I'll just train myself to turn on and off that switch when I get bugged. Hey, there's an idea. Why don't we have a button on the toolbar that will turn this and other settings on an off without havinf to go through the menus? Maybe the latest versions of IE have this feature?

Sean

19

How do you explain it to your spouse?

by buffy in

jw
friends

i've been w/ my husband for 2 years, married for 3 months.

he knows what i went through going throught the df process.

he saw the horrible time i had dealing w/ loosing my family.

SEAKEN2001

Oh, I think I see. Maybe some who still believe give you the impression that they think your were never a true believer. I think most of us who have completely walked away, like yourself, understand that that is just a self-serving response from individuals who are still trying to hold on.

It has been irritating me that my wife will not allow herself to entertain the thought that I was indeed a true and honest believer and that it was extremely difficult to change my mind. I just can't understand why she is willing to think that I am somehow now allied with Satan's world. I really haven't changed very much. It disturbs me that she thinks I am sick even thought she claims that she does not. By her refusal to address my questions, and my outright acusations against the Society she follows, she is telling me otherwise. It is very hard for me to set aside all this crap and just conscentrate on loving her. I try very hard every day. Some days are good. Some days are bad. I am still programmed to want to have my wife in agreement with me and share my ideas on spirituality. I am hoping that some day I can get that program out of my mind. It is the only thing left from my dub life that has a hold on me.

Take care,
Sean

19

How do you explain it to your spouse?

by buffy in

jw
friends

i've been w/ my husband for 2 years, married for 3 months.

he knows what i went through going throught the df process.

he saw the horrible time i had dealing w/ loosing my family.

SEAKEN2001

Good comment Introspection.

Why do some say you don't understand? I was raised a dub but I still have a hard time grasping the concept that a dub can be active yet not be thoroughly indoctrinated. Apparently this is my wifes view. She clearly does not take the WT threats seriously and claims that no one knows who will survive Armageddon, etc. Yet she believes the dubs have the "truth" and that to leave them puts me in a poor situation. To me, as a life long dub, it is either you're in or you're out. It's very difficult to understand dubs who just make up their own ideas about what the WT teaches and treat it as their "religion" rather than their "life".

Why did you get baptized? Did you believe you knew the "truth"? Were you confident that the WT represented God? Did you defend them at all costs? If so, than I think you can understand the difficulties faced by those who have left those beliefs behind and are trying to recover from the mind control.

I agree that those never associated with dubs will probably never fully understand what we are going through. Hopefully, our loved ones will not let that prevent them from putting up with our weird obsessions.

Sean

8

Help! Is it possible to earn a living under 40 hrs

by Leander in

jw
friends

on a few posts here and there i've noticed some of the people on the board have been able to create their own careers without working the dreaded fulltime hours.

i've been wanting to do this for years but i don't have a clue as to how to get started.

i've really wanted to get into the field of real estate development.

SEAKEN2001

Hi Leander,

Starting and running a business is definitely not the way to cut down on your work hours. If you really want to run your own business it will take twice as much time as your current 40 hour job, for possibly several years. If you are successful then it may be possible to cut back your personal work hours as you gain trust in other people who can share the workload.

If all you are trying to do is simplify your life, and you don't need a lot of money, and have discipline to set enough aside for your old age, then it is possible to make a living doing any number of things, like cleaning, selling, deliveries, etc. But it sound to me like you would rather build a small business and control your own destiny. You will need to decide if you can sacrafice your time to build a successful business. It's extremely time consuming but it may be worth it if you are driven enough.

One thing I know is that you will never be self-sufficient working for someone else unless you're willing to be content with very little. Some people can use their wages to build some future financial security. Some people, like me, have a hard time being content to take orders and work for wages and keep my personal life seperate from my work life. To me it is all the same. I take my work seriously and it is a big part of my life and my future. So for me, it makes more sense to build my own business that I can steer where I want it to go.

At any rate, I know of no way to work less than 40 hours initially and continue at your current wages. Something will have to give, either your time or your wages.

Sean