there, i said it.. how can you leave one brainwashing controlling world view and dive right into another?!.
duh!!!.
see http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=17131&site=3 for a great example of why they suck.. aaaaaarrrrrrgggghhhh!.
Mike,
I'll throw in with those here who have expressed the idea that it is not a persons religion that makes them "suck". Saying ex-JW Christians suck is the same as saying Christians suck, or ex-JW's suck. It's not really fair is it?
But I know it's hard to get through the obviuos hard-headedness of many former JW's. But the same can be said about former members of many cult's like Catholics, or conservative Jews, etc. The phenomenon is not unique to ex-JW's.
Sean
one of the reasons i thought armageddon was close at hand was.
the impending obsolescence of the bible as a source of revelation.. the bible was written within the context of a large number of.
conditions that eventually would be changed by technology, i reasoned,.
Oh my god!
a, you didn't type in that missive while here in the forum did you? Surely, you have been hiding that somewhere on your hard disk just waiting to pull it out.
I'm amused because I use to do just the same. You think you have to be so full of understanding and that you can, by logic, convince the infidels of the truth found in the word of god.
It really doesn't work. You can make the Bible be whatever you want it to be. And, you cannot prove to anyone anything of which they have not already convinced themselves. I know, it sounds non-sensical. But all of us tend to just believe what makes sense to us. I guess, for now, you believe that God has preserved a written "word" and treat it as though God himslef is speaking, even if in riddles. Most of us who doubt you have been where you are.
Amused,
Sean
we cut a christmas tree this afternoon at a u-cut lot about one hundred miles from home.
we were on our way home from my mother-in-law's house and thought we'd start a new tradition.
we had ideas of tromping through the woods with the kids looking for the perfect tree.
Well, Rach, there you go. A ready made tradition just fell into your lap! Wrap that nest after this Xmas and keep is safe. Pull it out every year as a rememberance.
Sean
[By the way, a couple if times I heard it mentioned that the trees are killed when cutting them. I suppose that's the way our society chooses to look at it (and many "green" organizations object ot cutting trees) but I prefer to think of it as utilizing it's power. What you are really doing is transfering it's force to another purpose. If that same tree is burned as fuel it again is repurposed. All tree wills "die" and their energy will be reclaimed by the atmosphere around them. This may be getting too philosophical for this thread, but perhaps it's the same for all living things. Anyway, I just picked up on the harshness of the term "killed" and thought that we really don't have to guilt ourselves about cutting trees as long as we have a good purpose for it's power.]
how about.... dutifully under borg,.
distressed underpaid bullshitter.
disenfranchised, underprivileged, brainwashed.
Definitely Untrue Books
Good one TR!
How bout,
Damned Unbelievable Bullshit!
(fowl)
Darned Unbelievable Bull-pucky!
(cleaned up for the ladies <g>)
Sean
about three years ago my future husband suggested i read a book by robert heilein called, job: a comedy of justice".
i reccommend this book to everyone and anyone that has been in any religion.
it is quite an amusing, but disturbing story about a minister that keeps being put into different lives.
Thomas,
first, I don't think there is a "the Christian". Your idea of Christianity is probably far different than mine. But, I think many Christians would benefit from a critical exposition of relgious idealogy in general. Heinlien is an excellent writer and his way of expressing things may make you see yourself in a completey new light. That, I think, is always beneficial. Too many of us who have called ourselves Christian do not really see ourselves as we really are and need a wake up call, so-to-speak. I don't think you will be disappointed in reading the book.
And what exactly is the "antichrist mentality"? JW's, it seems, place all former JW's into that mentality. Where are you in relation to that?
Sean
i don't have 10 or 12 dollars to spend that isn't necessary, so does this book really contain anything that i haven't already read on the dozens of websites that have info on the 607-1914 chronology subject?
Well, I don't know. Probably most the info on the net is adequate to prove the point. But, Olaf J. does leave no doubt. He exhaustively destroys the JW theory from several angles. It is not an easy read but I think it is worth having in your library. You sure you can't poney up the $12? Maybe skip McDonalds a couple of times? I can remember when I had to pay $30-$40 for a book and did so because I thought the information valuable. Printing costs are less these days but $12 for even a paper back book of this kind is pretty good. Maybe the library would like a copy. Have them buy it and then loan it out.
Sean
last night a program remembered the japanese attack on pearl harbor sixty years ago.
amidst all the historical details, a story of a serviceman stood out.
he was a youngster then, still in his teens and stationed in hawaii, when he sent his mom a card to let her know of his condition.
Teejay,
I think we're of the mind on this matter of the social benefits of church. I think the same social benefit can be achieved at school, work, clubs, etc. But there does seem to be a built in need to formalize any social connections into some kind of association. Religions and Cults are prime examples of this but are not alone. The same type of formalization of social relationships is seen in corporations and in politics.
From my own point of view I see the need to socialize. I have been tempted to return to the KH meetings simply to renew some friendships and cultivate a social life. I resist that because I know I will just get into trouble and get permanently cut off. But, in the meantime, I find myself living in a very small town in the mountains with few opportunities to engage in community social events where I would feel comfortable. My choices are somewhat limited. I have found that my tastes in social excercise favor the metropolitan atmosphere of a large city. (I grew up in the city and was transported to the country when I was under the spell of the Borg)I am trying to convince myself that it is more important to socialize with what I see as less than desirable pool of fellow citizens than to isolate myself. I know that is true and that once I get out and get used to the social norm in this community I will learn from and come to love and respect it.
I think relgion does play an important role in social behavior. But I think it is secondary to the more pure social behavior to be found on a community level. The relgions will shape the peoples ideas and thoughts as they interact with their neighbors, for either positive or negative. But it will most likely be the social skills of the people that will determine the success of the community, not the religion. Up to this point in my life I was taught that the most important thing in determining the value of another socially was their religion. For a good JW, if one is not in your religion they are not in your circle socially. That is a warped and convoluted view and it is a long road to shedding that rediculous idea. It is probably due more to similar relgious ideas that wars are fought than to social incompatibility. Once people understand that religion is not the primary force in social behavior I think there is a chance we will see few wars. There may be some good reasons to go to war but religion is definitely not one of them. It appears not enough of mankind has figured that out yet.
Sean
this is the instant message conversation i had with my sister in law on friday.
it makes me so sad because i think that she in her heart recognizes the truth of what i am saying, but then the jw brainswashing takes over and she just stops thinking.. sorry it's so long!!.
c: you are very special to me.. c: i love you deeply.
Ughh, my heart just aches reading this. I never get that far with my wife. She breaks down and runs away crying before she even hears any of the arguments. Let alone read any "apostate" lit!
You may never get to her about her religion. But maybe you can salvage the friendship. Just be careful not to push her away by leaning on her too much. You're the best judge of her character and of how much you can push her. But be careful. You can do permanent harm even if you don't intend it. Go slow. Let the love show above all else. Someday, maybe something will happen in her own life in connection to this religion and she will come to you knowing that she can trust you as someone who loves her. Try your very best to keep that open.
What a complex issue this is. I know how much pain you are in. But it will be alright. You don't have to agree on points of religion to be friends. It's hard but worth the effort if she's truly a good person.
Sean
poor old ray!.
you may recall me posting about ray's troubles with lucy, his jw wife.
lucy recently accused ray of feeding her poisoned sausages, with the result that ray was visited by the police.
Of course, the obvious solution is to just bump her off and remove all doubt. But if that is NOT why he is reading those detective novels <g> then I recommend he try to get her to a doctor of psychiatry. She sounds like she needs professional help.
Sean
last week, i told about how i watched the christmas eve sky, for santa claus, after my parents became witnesses, thinking he just didn't come to our house anymore.. here is another thing i did.
all through school (my parents became dubs before i went to kindergarten) i participated in decorating the room for christmas.
i sang all the carols, and ate the goodies that were brought my the moms.
Arghh! It used to irk me to no end that I was not supposed to participate in playing holiday music. I was one of the leaders in the band and it really hurt to let my band down by not playing in the concerts. I compromised and helped the band through rehersals unitl I was no longer needed. At one point the band teacher assigned me elswehere since I wasn't going to play the concert anyway. I was hurt.
Our department bent over backwards for me and some other "objectors" though and staged other non-holiday concerts where everyone could participate. I loved putting on the Harvest Moon Ball every October. It gave me a taste of the school dances I was not allowed to attend. Somehow my folks didn't place a concert in the "can't do" file unless it was a holiday or the dreaded "senior dance".
I love the old movies with Bing Crosby or Frank Sinatra and my wife an I always end up watching the "seasonal" features played this time of year. Bing Crosby's White Christmas is one of my favs. I love Tim Allans Christmas movie where he takes over the big guys job. Crackes me up! My wife loves "A Christmas Story" where the little kid only wants a BB-gun. Hilarious!
Sean
