Posts by SEAKEN2001

57

Post a message to Sharon Roe(Janet Bryant's sister

by seven006 in

jw
friends

sharon like her sister janet was also raised a jw.

she left the religion three years ago just about the same time as robert and janet.

her husband is not a jw but did attend the occasional meeting.

SEAKEN2001

Hi Sharon,

Dave has kindly kept us up to date and he has done a wonderful thing in allowing us a way to contact you and share our thoughts. I am so sorry for your loss. Please except my sincere sympathy and love. I know you are a Christian and your faith can be of enormous help in dealing with your feelings. I hope you are able to continue to draw on your own beliefs and soak in the many kind remarks made by people here and in your own community. I no longer follow the Christian religion but I do still strongly believe in the ideals espoused by Jesus as he endeavored to emphasize the power of love. I find it strengthening to notice that there are so many different ideas about religion here but there is a common idea that we all want to send you our love and sympathy. We all hurt and share your pain. Many of us have first hand experience with losing our religion and also losing a loved one to death and can be of tremendous help should you choose to stop by once in awhile and visit this multi faceted community. I really appreciated your own comments about depression and your call to those who need help to seek it out. Good advice. I hope you will remember that you have a great number of fellow brothers and sisters of all faiths who only want to help as you face the loss of your own sister and her family. Thank you for providing such a nice memorial service for the community and sharing some of your memories about your sister and her kids and husband. My mom also liked roses.

I don't know if you have a computer but I thought that perhaps you would be upbuilt by my mom's story, your namesake, who experienced a profound lack of love but came out of it all with her own faith in God and her own love of her fellow man as strong as always. I was very proud of her. Her story is here:

http://www.exjws.net/shunning/sharonkennedy.htm

Sincerely,

Sean

55

Bryant Memorial Service Report

by seven006 in

jw
friends

it is hard for me to transcibe certain feelings into written words especially since i'm not what you would consider to be a real emotional person.

i have also mastered the art of rarely showing any outward emotional expression.

i will try and do my best to give you some of the feelings i experienced today through my eyes, so please bare with me.. i drove the hour to mcminnville which is a small town about forty miles south of portland.

SEAKEN2001

Dave, thank you for being there and reporting on the memorial service for us. And good idea about posting some comments for Sharon Roe. I'll find that thread and send a little note.

Sean

9

New Book on Jehovah's Witnesses?

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

we've had two from ray franz in the 1980/90's and one from jim penton (mid 80's) and some brilliant tomes on specific subjects such as those from carl jonnsen but now we're in 2002 isn't it time we had a new and up-to-date masterpiece to defend truth against error?.

what i mean is that most witnesses today may not be too bothered about beth-sarim or what happened within the wt back in 1975 they want to read something bang up-to-date in one succinct volume.. does anyone know of any works in progress?

the watchtower apologists (such as stafford and furuli) are quite active why aren't the ex-jw's?

SEAKEN2001

Celia,

I agree with you. I think a book of experiences would be great. A selcetion from all walks of life would be good.

I also have an idea about a book of questions. Just questions. I have collected quite a few over the years and could easily fill a book.

HS, funny!

Sean

18

Don't become emotionaly attached to JW.com

by sleepy in

jw
friends

don't become emotionaly attached to jw.com.

it seems that many of our friends here have become too emotionaly involved with this discussion board.. it has eaten into their personal lives,and caused upset and anger.. it is a shame as a times there can be great encouragement and words of wisdom here.other times nonsense and triva.. it can be addictive, and i sometimes find myself wandering here too often.. but i think its good to keep yourself detached from the people here unless you know them more personnaly.. internet conversations are different from face to face chats, and people say things they wouldn't normally say in front of someone, or say things due to lack of understanding , of other peoples needs.. we would't want to put people off from coming here by petty bickering and such.. i believe that restraint is sometimes called for and a little patience on our part when we feel hurt by peoples cutting remarks, imagined or other wise.

SEAKEN2001

Hi flower,

I think everyone will agree with you. Perhaps the title of this thread is directed toward those who have invested some negative emotions in this site. Some people seem to think that their worth is determined by how well they argue a point.

For support purposes this can be a great place to form some friendships and attachments, with appropriate care.

I have made some comments every now and then about how I see some of the mind-control issues and how I have solved them in my own case. These comments could easily be taken as a kind of "just change, blah, blah" type of solution. But I know only too well that breaking free from the WT mind set is extremely hard and everyone will be handling the process differently and in the way that is best for them. Being able to exchange ideas with people who really know what you are going through is very supportive and a wonderful benefit of an online discussion board. As always, the best results are obtained when the use of these tools are handled with balance.

Good comments flower.

Sean

32

Peer Pressure - the WTS Greatest Weapon

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

in my early years of questioning wts theology and methodology in the late 70s', i was entirely on my own.

i knew that something was seriously wrong with their doctrines, but there was no internet, no discussion groups, and in my particular area of the uk, no listening ear.

in fact everybody seemed so pleasantly in love with the truth and so drawn along by collective enthusiasm that i seriously began to question my own attitudes.. sometimes i would wonder if i had gone quite mad, lost god's spirit, or had accomplished some dark deed in my past, that unknown to me was stripping me of my faith.

SEAKEN2001

Absolutely right Jeff. It is very hard to face up to your having been fooled and tricked and many people will rather avoid that thought and keep swallowing the propaganda. Hope is a powerful thing. What a shame that it is also a type of prison for some people.

Good topic. Thanks HS, Amazing and Jeff. Good comments.

Sean

41

Get Out More / Questionaire.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

is it true that americans are the least travelled people in the world?

if that is the case, its hardly surprising when you read all the dire warnings contained inside a us passport.

also, i am told that americans regard the rest of the world as a very dangerous place to be.

SEAKEN2001

outnfree,

Ha Ha! I hope you know I was just pokin' fun. Do you have a Joysey accent? I go shopping in Paramus and surrounding area all the time. Usually cut through North Jersey on my way home from visiting NYC. I have to say the "culture" is the pretty much the same from Philadelphia through NJ, NYC on up to Albany, with Orange County in between. Very urban and fast paced. Having been imported from Seattle and the PNW it took me awhile to adjust. Of course, last year when I was back home in Seattle it seemed to me that the once small town atmosphere I grew up in is mostly gone. Much more like NYC or L.A. now. I think maybe the biggest differnces are now seen between rural/country areas and urban/big city areas.

Sean

32

Peer Pressure - the WTS Greatest Weapon

by hillary_step in

jw
friends

in my early years of questioning wts theology and methodology in the late 70s', i was entirely on my own.

i knew that something was seriously wrong with their doctrines, but there was no internet, no discussion groups, and in my particular area of the uk, no listening ear.

in fact everybody seemed so pleasantly in love with the truth and so drawn along by collective enthusiasm that i seriously began to question my own attitudes.. sometimes i would wonder if i had gone quite mad, lost god's spirit, or had accomplished some dark deed in my past, that unknown to me was stripping me of my faith.

SEAKEN2001

I thinks it's more than a fear of losing friends and family, Jeff. The peer pressure is directed at our foundational beliefs. Our own paradigm is shaped by this pressure and we desire to be comfortable and happy with our own paradigm so we allow the pressure to mold our thinking. The fear of losing family and friends comes at a much later stage, only after we have faced our own inner fears of not believing and challenging our own paradigm.

The WTS knows this and deliberately uses propaganda to mold our thinking in such a way so that we feel safe. It's all a delusion. Advertisers try to use the same techniques. They want to you to believe and feel comfortable with whatever they are advertising. They know that few will be willing to subject themselves to that which they fear. The number one objective is to get the people to trust them. Without that trust they can go no further. With that trust they can, if so desired, manipulate the people with misleading statements and lead them wherever they desire. As soon as you lose their trust your dead.

The WTS carefully contructs their words in an effort to capitalize on peoples fears while at the same time garner their trust. Once people give them their trust they can manipulate them as they see fit. This works because there are many people who would rather let someone else do the thinking and reasoning than do it themselves. If someone ever comes to the realization on their own that they want to take more personal responsibilty for their thinking and decide for themselves with their own power of reasoning, well, it's all over. The WTS has lost them. Whatever comes after that will be up to the individual. Some may not care about losing anyone and just do whatever they see fit to do come hell or high water. Others may genuinely fear such losses and find some other way to deal with their newly changed paradigm. At any rate, the pressure applied by the WTS will only work as long as you are a believer. Once you no longer believe, that pressure may have an effect on your life because of the force it has on other peoples minds but inside yourself it no longer has a grip. Along the way it will most likely be painful as you wrestle with your own fears of having to do the work yourself. Some people may never be able to address that fear and voluntarily allow the propaganda to ease their pain. But for those who take the personal responsibilty the WTS no longer leads them, no matter what.

Sean

41

Get Out More / Questionaire.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

is it true that americans are the least travelled people in the world?

if that is the case, its hardly surprising when you read all the dire warnings contained inside a us passport.

also, i am told that americans regard the rest of the world as a very dangerous place to be.

SEAKEN2001

Hi peaceloveharmony,

I was just teasn'. Where else in this country have the people chosen as their Governer a WWF idol?

No disrecpted intended. I just love the "we're going to do this no matter what you think" attitude. Like swimmming in freezing ponds in your shorts in zero degree temperatures. My sister-in-law is in Wisconsin, next door to you, and we have a lot of fun with her accent, like the folks in the movie Fargo. Actually I see a marked similarity in the accent of people from all around the Great Lakes, both in Canada and the US. Must come from the fishing and trapping roots shared among the peoples of that general region, many of whom came from the cold regions of upper Europe, like Norway. Who knows? I'm not a linguist or a historian. I just thinks it's interesting.

Sean

41

Get Out More / Questionaire.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

is it true that americans are the least travelled people in the world?

if that is the case, its hardly surprising when you read all the dire warnings contained inside a us passport.

also, i am told that americans regard the rest of the world as a very dangerous place to be.

SEAKEN2001

Hi Expat,

I do not disagree with your comment but I do think that it depends on what we consider as "culture". Some people would say that the US and Western Europe have the same "western culture". Since most of us are talking about traveling within our own cultural regions of the world I think it's fair to point out the differences one experiences when traveling from community to community within those regions. This, I think, is very similar between the US, Canada, W. Europe, and Australia. At this advanced date I don't think there is a remarkable difference in the "cultures" of France and England, just as it is here in the US between states. But within that general culture and view of the world shared by these regions there are remarkable differences of habit and approach to every day living.

Thus my crack above on the Minnesotans. They really are no different than New Yorkers or Seattleites but you can see the difference in how they approach life and in thier habits. And I love them all. The same recognition of differences is possible when traveling around W. Europe even though the general cultural attitudes are pretty much the same. The greater differences of culture are observed when we travel to the Mid-East or Eastern Europe, or the Orient and Southeast Asia or the Island's and Africa. Then we have true cultural dissonance and if we are smart we will do as E-man and Mulan suggest and leave the Western cultural attitudes at home.

Sean

41

Get Out More / Questionaire.

by Englishman in

jw
friends

is it true that americans are the least travelled people in the world?

if that is the case, its hardly surprising when you read all the dire warnings contained inside a us passport.

also, i am told that americans regard the rest of the world as a very dangerous place to be.

SEAKEN2001

Hi E-man,

The countries you listed are mostly in Europe and fairly local to you. I would say you are probably most familiar with "West European" culture. And that's great. There is a wonderful blend of ideas and approaches to life right there within that circle of countries. And I agree that such traveling and taking in of what the various places have to offer is a great way to break free of the cult thinking we were taught as JW's.

For myself, the barrier for more travel is a lack of cash flow. Traveling takes a lot of money and there are many people all around the world who just don't have the opportunity to travel to other countries to experience the different cultures first hand. However, when compared to some I am not poor and have been able to travel fairly extensively within North America at least, and once to Ireland. I would agree with others here that traveling within the US and Canada is analogous to traveling from country to country within Europe, even though we use the term "States" or "Provinces" instead of "country".

I also would like to point out that just living in the US is often enough to rub shoulders with different cultures from all around the world. I think London is similar to New York City in that within those cities there are people of hundreds of different backgrounds and cultures all calling it home. A true melting pot. Most cities in the US have at least some type of "melting pot" flavor. Right here in my own back yard we have a group of Tibetan Buddhist's and I have personally met the Dali' Lama whom they all consider to be a spiritual leader and who is directly from the mountains in Tibet and travels around the world. Woodstock is well known for it's cultural diversification. That's great for people who don't have a lot of money for travel.

Here's my list:

I reside in USA, New York state.

Was born and raised in Washington State

Visited the following states, countries or regions

Oregon
Idaho
Montana
California
Wyoming (truly another world with it's beautiful wilderness)
South Dakota
Nebraska
Iowa
Minnesota (talk about regional culture! [g])
Wisconsin
Illinois
Indiana
Michegan
Ohio
Pennsylvania (bring your own ale!)
West Virgina
Virginia
Tennesee
North Carolina
Florida
Maryland
Wshington D.C. (completely incomprehensible but interesting)
Delaware
New Jersey (almost as mysterious as Minnesota, Ha!)
Connecticut
Rhode Island
Massachusettes
Vermont
New Hampshire
Maine
(The last group of six we call collectively New England)

Canada:
British Colummbia
Ontario
Quebec (decidedly European in flavor)

Ireland, Republic of

Also visited several "Indian" Nations here in the US and Canada.

And there is quite a difference between the West and East in the US and even the "Midwest". There is also a difference in the North and South. I haven't had the pleasure of visiting Texas and Oklahoma but my wife's uncle lives there and we get the flavor from him.

My family's roots are in England and I hope to visit one day. Gotta save up.

Sean