Posts by schnell

22

I got a voicemail from an elder about meeting with me.

by schnell in

yesterday, i missed a call and got a long voicemail from an elder who would like to meet with my wife and i some time this weekend, with another elder who dealt with my brother.

i haven't responded.

it's meeting night tonight, and my wife has already talked about staying home to do yoga with me instead.. yeah.

schnell

It's becoming increasingly difficult to find a common frame, or foundation, of belief upon which to debate.

Heh, I know what you're saying. Nice post, too. Stephen Hawking wrote about this, how we can look back at ridiculous ideas from centuries past (he specifically mentioned a flat earth on a stack of turtles) and think so highly of ourselves, but how will our descendants see the things we believe?

Considering the historical criticism that students have been learning in seminary for a couple hundred years, it's a shock to come out of the Theocratic Ministry School and see what scholars actually know, things we've been taught to dismiss. I am convinced that most elders would not pass the entry exam to seminary, and would not pass the program without abandoning their faith.

And that's just the thing. As you pursue the truth, the truth sets you free. Matt Dillahunty went to seminary as a Christian fundamentalist and now hosts the Atheist Experience in Austin, TX. Bart Ehrman went to seminary as a Christian fundamentalist and is now an agnostic seminary professor, though he insists atheism isn't an inevitable result of Bible criticism. I would say it's either that or some sort of loose, metaphorical reinterpretation. Or just dishonesty.

At this point, I'm atheist but certainly not nihilist. The world is beautiful, and it's a joy to be alive, to write and create and take things in and have an impact on the world around you. I like to think of my personal philosophy as Zen Stoicism, two things from East and West that naturally go together. And I'm certainly influenced by the monomyth of Joseph Campbell. That's just me and my way around nihilism.

26

Was it Adam who altered his own DNA so that sicknesses & consequent death would be passed on to his offspring?

by deegee in

the blame for mankind's sicknesses/diseases and consequent death has been placed squarely on the shoulders of adam:.

romans 5:12, 17 - 19:"therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—for if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man.......consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people........for just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners........".

1 corinthians 15: 21, 22:"for since death came through a man........... for as in adam all die.......".

schnell

To be sure, though no one has directly said this in this thread, we didn't evolve from homo neanderthalis. We evolved from homo erectus. "Neanderthals are more like our cousins with the same grandpa," says Aron-Ra. However, we do have some admixture of Neanderthals and Denisovans.

Knowledge is power.

33

Pyramid Schemes

by schnell in

several years ago, i was introduced to a "wonderful" company called fortune hi tech marketing by a brother and his wife.

they had been introduced by a former sheriff who claims he had researched the company and found no leins or judgments, and that former sheriff had been brought in by a pastor.

you can read what happened with fhtm on wikipedia if you so desire.. this whole new idea of multilevel marketing had my brain reeling, though, and soon enough, i actually signed up with none other than prepaid legal.

schnell

Yep, I've read Pink Truth. Great site! It also points out that some of the "top earners" with rings and awards and speeches and stuff aren't making much more than $20k a year after taxes and expenses. In other words, they could just go get a job and be better off.

29

If the GB changed a major teaching, would all witnesses just go along with it?

by stuckinarut2 in

so if the gb changed its "bible based beliefs" on some teaching, would witnesses all of a sudden change their individual beliefs too?.

witnesses like to claim that "their bible trained hearts and minds" make them believe as they do, but we know that the reality is that all witnesses hold their "deep seated beliefs" according to what they have been told to believe.. so what would cause the average witness to question those that dictate their "personal convictions"??.

thoughts?.

schnell

I went to the last assembly's morning session with my wife, and an awesome beard that I was quite surprised I could grow. This is after the Watchtower announced a change about beards I guess. I didn't read it, just heard about it.

(I did, however, read in 30 Years A Watchtower Slave about Rutherford and the bearded coordinator of Bethel in Germany. That's why I grew the beard.)

I got looks. People didn't know what to do. One of my great friends had to break the ice and come over to me before anyone else in his circle would do so.

I left at the half. If you love hearing some dork at the podium talk about wrestling with demons, but won't talk to a friend because he has a beard now, you're acting nuts. Although I mostly left because nothing said in the entire program made sense.

29

If the GB changed a major teaching, would all witnesses just go along with it?

by stuckinarut2 in

so if the gb changed its "bible based beliefs" on some teaching, would witnesses all of a sudden change their individual beliefs too?.

witnesses like to claim that "their bible trained hearts and minds" make them believe as they do, but we know that the reality is that all witnesses hold their "deep seated beliefs" according to what they have been told to believe.. so what would cause the average witness to question those that dictate their "personal convictions"??.

thoughts?.

schnell

Maybe they'll change their rule on 2 witnesses.

That'll be a loving provision.

29

If the GB changed a major teaching, would all witnesses just go along with it?

by stuckinarut2 in

so if the gb changed its "bible based beliefs" on some teaching, would witnesses all of a sudden change their individual beliefs too?.

witnesses like to claim that "their bible trained hearts and minds" make them believe as they do, but we know that the reality is that all witnesses hold their "deep seated beliefs" according to what they have been told to believe.. so what would cause the average witness to question those that dictate their "personal convictions"??.

thoughts?.

schnell

Yes.

9

Circuit Overseers are putting their resume on LinkedIn? This is new?!

by dropoffyourkeylee in

i am a bit surprised to see what appears to be current and in-good-standing circuit overseers putting their resumes on linkedin.

www.linkedin.com/title/circuit-overseer.

do you know any of these, and are they legit?.

schnell

I've seen a few elders on LinkedIn who list their occupation as "Minister at WTBTS".

Yeah, they love their titles.

41

What Comes After the Watchtower Collapse?

by schnell in

i was going to put this in my thread about pyramid schemes, but i thought it's discreet enough to warrant its own.

1) there are many faithful jws.

2) there are many men and women who could take control and fill the void if the watchtower collapses.

schnell

That just discourages fading and encourages outright activism to me.

41

What Comes After the Watchtower Collapse?

by schnell in

i was going to put this in my thread about pyramid schemes, but i thought it's discreet enough to warrant its own.

1) there are many faithful jws.

2) there are many men and women who could take control and fill the void if the watchtower collapses.

schnell

I was going to put this in my thread about pyramid schemes, but I thought it's discreet enough to warrant its own.

1) There are many faithful JWs.

2) There are many men and women who could take control and fill the void if the Watchtower collapses.

So what happens next? As "the money going out far outweighs the money coming in", will the organization perhaps split? Will it spin off?

Back to the pyramid schemes, that very thing happened when one prominent company was shut down and several new ones sprang up in its place.

33

Pyramid Schemes

by schnell in

several years ago, i was introduced to a "wonderful" company called fortune hi tech marketing by a brother and his wife.

they had been introduced by a former sheriff who claims he had researched the company and found no leins or judgments, and that former sheriff had been brought in by a pastor.

you can read what happened with fhtm on wikipedia if you so desire.. this whole new idea of multilevel marketing had my brain reeling, though, and soon enough, i actually signed up with none other than prepaid legal.

schnell

Several years ago, I was introduced to a "wonderful" company called Fortune Hi Tech Marketing by a brother and his wife. They had been introduced by a former sheriff who claims he had researched the company and found no leins or judgments, and that former sheriff had been brought in by a pastor.

You can read what happened with FHTM on Wikipedia if you so desire.

This whole new idea of multilevel marketing had my brain reeling, though, and soon enough, I actually signed up with none other than Prepaid Legal. Interestingly, I attended a PPL seminar in San Diego and found it to be... very, very, very similar to a JW assembly.

Huh.

I left it all and wanted nothing to do with pyramid schemes ever again. But I've noticed something about numerous JWs. Without higher education or good jobs, a minority of them get involved in such schemes.

One sister in northern California was actually convicted for running a Ponzi scheme. That very sister had the nerve to tell me on Facebook how the world is getting worse, "like Sodom and Gomorrah."

When I've tried to tell these people that pyramid schemes are not economically feasible, and that multilevel marketing IS pyramid scheming, and that it WILL fail, they are so stuck on the community and the money that they won't listen. It's as fascinating as it is frustrating.

I also see that they too see the similarities between being a JW and being a distributor for such a company.

Somewhat rarely, the brothers will make a point in a talk at a convention that pyramid schemes should be avoided. It does happen. But not enough, and I don't have to wonder why.

Has anyone else observed this? Any similar experience?