Well, James, you just MAY be right! Not upset today... still new.
NeverKnew
JoinedPosts by NeverKnew
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81
Amway
by enigma1863 ini was curious, how many jws end up getting caught up in pyramid scemes like amway.
i was caught up in there online program quixstar for a little while several years ago.
i noticed there are several similarities between amway and a cult..
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81
Amway
by enigma1863 ini was curious, how many jws end up getting caught up in pyramid scemes like amway.
i was caught up in there online program quixstar for a little while several years ago.
i noticed there are several similarities between amway and a cult..
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NeverKnew
My BF (or ex-BF - not sure today) is in TWO!
One is some weightloss milkshake stuff and the other is a "use this to advertise your MLM" mlm.
Oh wait... he's in three... he's a JW. *sigh*
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49
So if you tell a JW they were raised in a cult...
by NeverKnew inyeah...it was wrong.
i got upset and blurted this truth.
seems kinda screwy that telling someone a truth could be wrong.
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NeverKnew
Problemaddict, if he does run to them, might that be a good thing? Never having been a MS or elder, he hasn't seen or experienced the things that people like "AuntConnie" are seeing and experiencing. I think he may have a very delusional picture of this group. Using rationale, WT books, and reading the Bible in context seems to have absolultely no impact at all. He's sold - hook line and sinker.
Let me share something with you. I was in an abusive marriage at one time but didn't know it (sound familiar?). I had creative ways of writing off my husband's irrational behavior when I would discuss my challenges with those who loved me. Eventually, I found myself isolated and tired of the BS. I had cut off everyone who could have helped me because "they just didn't get him like I did." It was then that I had to deal with the walls I had built FOR him and decide whether I was going to continue to allow his inconsistencies to impact my life. It was when I had to deconstruct myself that I was able to create boundaries for what I was going to allow to be acceptable.
He acknowledges a few concerns (which I've capitalized on when appropriate), but I suspect he hasn't seen the worst. He tells me they are starting to recognize him for more privileges and that he's showing them he's reaching out for them. I'm thinking I can't save him from himself. He has to do some of this work. My love for him can't insist on its own way.
I promise you, AuntConnie is sitting in the middle of crossroads I'm somewhat familiar with... hers are messier, but there comes a point when one has to say enough is enough.
If my thinking is flawed, tell me.
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23
5 stages of dealing with TTATT?
by El_Guapo inthanks to this website and jwfacts, i have come to learn the "infamous" ttatt.. i've had soooo many emotions the last couple months.. (fyi: i've been baptized since '95 third gen jw, elder father and every other member of my family is a regular pioneer).
i was wondering, like dealing with greif : are there 5 stages for dealing with ttatt?.
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NeverKnew
RVW, how long were you in? AND, if you took the substances, could they have masked your stages?
Or are you equating the feeling with being on substances....
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49
So if you tell a JW they were raised in a cult...
by NeverKnew inyeah...it was wrong.
i got upset and blurted this truth.
seems kinda screwy that telling someone a truth could be wrong.
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NeverKnew
Perfect1: He's an absolute Sweetheart who has had quite a few life challenges (some legal - but even those I attribute to the "you're either with us or with Satan" mindset that I now understand). The good news is that I have asked him MANY questions before I arrived here on JWN after a lot of research on getting JWs to think. He has been presented with many articles and Bible texts that I asked him to explain that he couldn't explain. His most recent technique of excusing false doctrines with that freaking light statement (after we went over Prov 4 and AGREED that it was about personal conduct) has sent my frustration level over a cliff. IF he returns, asking him if there's ANYTHING that might cause him to doubt would be a great question to ask. Unless he says no... *sigh*
As long as you go poining out those inconsistencies he has a thought stopping cliche- acually several. You might trigger his awareness of his own indoctrinated mental process by asking him if there is any other possibility.
We touched on this last night. He brought up John 10:16 and he attributed this to the earthly paradise. I was blown away. I asked him who Jesus was speaking to - he responded correctly in saying "Jews." I then asked if Jesus could have been speaking about the inclusion of Gentiles and the possibility of this this verse not having anything to do with a group of people living on Earth and he seemed annoyed with the possibility of an alternate interpretation. The conversation was going to H%^&*%
If I say .. is there a possiblity? - he seems to be confused. Then, if I say, "could this mean (insert contextually accurate meaning here)" he seems to want to argue for the WT. At that point, I seem to want to verbally punch him in the head....
ABibleStudent: You had an elephant on your tongue too, huh... *sigh* I know the feeling. :(
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49
So if you tell a JW they were raised in a cult...
by NeverKnew inyeah...it was wrong.
i got upset and blurted this truth.
seems kinda screwy that telling someone a truth could be wrong.
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NeverKnew
He was actually preparing himself for the fallout with his folks after a marriage to me this year. He had conceded that the only thing he was challenged with was Jehovah's ensuing disappointment with him he'd have to face. I don't think he ever really understood how insulting that statement was....
He has an absolutely incredible memory (unfortunately, this serves to his disadvantage where WT teachings are concerned). I'm hoping that this incredible memory allows him to replay everything that we both said so he can untangle my arguments.
Jamie: I'll anxiously await that day. He knows I'll welcome him with unconditionally loving arms. (uh.. as long as I'm not married to someone else *ahem*)
Honeybucket: I think he's too terrified to go outside of our little world to check my statements. It could have potentially revealed me. He's been using that CD. I really hope this pushes him outside that f'in CD.
Extractor: Such kind words. :) Thank you! Right now I'm looking at this very selfishly and I feel like there's no longer an elephant sitting on my tongue! If repairing the relationship means I have to lie about what I know, it's not a relationship. Those are my feelings now. I'll break in a couple of days, I'm sure.
I felt a dynamic you all face that's hard to describe until you experience it. The more I learned, the less honest my communication became with him... In every other area of our communication, it was comfortable and free flowing. In this area?.. it was contrived. His cult personality would come out and I'd find myself playing chess with my presentations. IT WAS ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE! If a relationship hinges on either my adoption of a cult or this style of conversation, it's not honest. Period.
If he reaches out to me, I'll tell him that to continue a relationship, he'll have to understand my fears by reading Hassan's CCMC (which has nothing to do with JWs) and then proving he's not in a cult.
How will THAT go over I wonder...
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49
So if you tell a JW they were raised in a cult...
by NeverKnew inyeah...it was wrong.
i got upset and blurted this truth.
seems kinda screwy that telling someone a truth could be wrong.
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NeverKnew
Yeah...it was wrong. I got upset and blurted this truth. Seems kinda screwy that telling someone a truth could be wrong.
I told him that I was feeling a little concerned by quite a bit of what I'm seeing in WT literature and that I was worried that it didn't matter to him. I continued by saying that it seemed that the society had carte blanche to say whatever they wanted in my Lord's name and that he (my BF) was okay with it.
We started down the road of talking about the rising partaker figures. He said it was no big deal for that was between the partakers and God. I told him that the Society's history of claims that a reduction being correlative to Armageddon's arrival was failing. I told him he'd have to understand the evolution of the construct. I talked about Rutherford's new earthly paradise that was formed around 1935 and how millions then living would never die since the generation of 1914 would not disappear, the masthead creation (and changes) and how the partaker's figures fit into this grand scheme. I had him find and read out loud 3 or 4 Watchtower articles (thanks, Jwfacts) that substantiated my claims of the WT's historical stance on the reduction of partakers and how, when the numbers weren't decreasing, there were articles of emotionally imbalanced people partaking.
I also told him there were remnants of these teachings in their presentations today (I once called him on his use of "soon" and required that he not use it if he didn't know when "soon" was).
I should have left it there. He was already agitated.
I heard him say something to the effect of, "the Society HAS made adjustments... blah blah ...for the path of the righteous ones.... light getting brighter... blah blah and so we no longer do any date setting!"
I blurted... "so let me get this straight... your organization has required 120 years of adjustments to get to where Christendom has been for a couple of thousand years and you want me to leave what I've always known and believe in this stuff as these guys figure it out? They're using some awfully dim lights!!!!"
He blurted... "well Christendom has gotten some things wrong too!"
I followed with... "the foundational tenets of all of Christendom are the same! There's no 'us vs. them' in Christendom! I don't hear that coming from the pulpits!" (a friend noted that Protestants even use the same seminaries) I told him I had to go and said goodbye. I had had enough.
Text message from him immediately followed: "A fool is one who claims to know all. Careful with your statements. You do not know my conversations with those as what you call traditional Christians. I can't allow you to tell me what I've heard. If you get upset, that's alright but you aren't in a position to tell me about my MANY conversations with traditional Christians."
My response: "You were raised in a cult. I'm tired of hiding this. If you don't believe me you can do your own research. This is a man-made organization. That's why things keep changing. I'm tired of being the only one doing the research. I love you but you can't hear me nor can you do any true research outside of the cult."
Him: "Stay where you are XXXX. You see no good where I am anyway. CULT. Take care of yourself."
ME: Your behavior, information, thinking and emotions are all controlled by them (AKA BITE methodoligies). There's nothing I can do and no, I will not be joining your cult. I will not separate myself from Christ.
I really love and care about him and he knows this. I'm tired of withholding all that I've learned and trying to use it to guide him down a path he can't even fathom. This has become a load that is too heavy for me to carry.
My truth (which was the elephant in my own mouth) is out.
I know this was against the advice you gave me. Even if I lose him (which I may have), maybe this year and a half of dripping will, one day, help him find his way out.
Nonetheless, thank you all for helping me.
I'm not leaving JWN so you'll have to tolerate the non-jw here. I've learned too much to lose you guys too. :)
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174
Good Reasons To Hate Every Weak And Ex-Jehovah Witness.
by AuntConnie in1. my husband's time is finite, it's wasted on spouses arguing over money, sex or family mattters with stupid home visits.. .
i hate people's constant open hand for money, it's the weak individuals asking others to pull their weight.
my family worked extra hours instead of begging the strong members for district assembly money, cat food for seven cats or tiny little rag-a-muffins weiner dogs.. .
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NeverKnew
Do you have ANY real friends who are outside of the organization that you feel safe with? Being here will help you, but I really think you need to talk to someone.
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174
Good Reasons To Hate Every Weak And Ex-Jehovah Witness.
by AuntConnie in1. my husband's time is finite, it's wasted on spouses arguing over money, sex or family mattters with stupid home visits.. .
i hate people's constant open hand for money, it's the weak individuals asking others to pull their weight.
my family worked extra hours instead of begging the strong members for district assembly money, cat food for seven cats or tiny little rag-a-muffins weiner dogs.. .
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NeverKnew
You are definitely hurting.
I hate that your brother had an addiction that required a lot of your mother's attention. Her behavior brings both Luke 15:3-7 and Matthew 18:12-14 to mind.
I hate that the anchor you should be able to rely on (your husband) is being used up by everyone else you now have to tolerate. I hate that the elders who are required to encourage the shunning behavior are now judging you.
I hate that you're alone.
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174
Good Reasons To Hate Every Weak And Ex-Jehovah Witness.
by AuntConnie in1. my husband's time is finite, it's wasted on spouses arguing over money, sex or family mattters with stupid home visits.. .
i hate people's constant open hand for money, it's the weak individuals asking others to pull their weight.
my family worked extra hours instead of begging the strong members for district assembly money, cat food for seven cats or tiny little rag-a-muffins weiner dogs.. .
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NeverKnew
Recovering, I agree. I updated my former post to include:
I'm baffled by the statement that you feel justified in not talking to your parents because, "...they brought reproach on Jehovah's Organization by socializing with people your not suppose to!"
- and you expressed this on an ex-jw site. There are so many things I'm not getting about this.