George: I presented this page I made a year ago and asked he AND an elder (two separate occasions) to provide me with ONE other source that supported 607 BC. The crickets are speaking louder than their words...
NeverKnew
JoinedPosts by NeverKnew
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39
Gregorian Calendar
by NeverKnew ini'm suffering from a vicious cycle.
put the research down - declare i'm not doing it anymore because it sickens me, ponder, make another aha connection, get sickened by it, put the research down, declare i'm not doing it anymore because it sickens me.. ponder.
i'm glad it's not just me.. i think my jw friend has been embarrassed one time too many with wt historical facts and so now he has asked me to help him understand my concerns and present him with some research that validates it.
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NeverKnew
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39
Gregorian Calendar
by NeverKnew ini'm suffering from a vicious cycle.
put the research down - declare i'm not doing it anymore because it sickens me, ponder, make another aha connection, get sickened by it, put the research down, declare i'm not doing it anymore because it sickens me.. ponder.
i'm glad it's not just me.. i think my jw friend has been embarrassed one time too many with wt historical facts and so now he has asked me to help him understand my concerns and present him with some research that validates it.
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NeverKnew
Ann: Stop being a scholar! LOL You're too smart for him right now!
Leaving Quietly: TOTALLY with you. Handled that. When I attempted to present that to him, I was WAY over his head. Not because he's not bright, but, like many of you I'm sure, he had been unquestioningly loyal to that formula and had never thought it through. As an outsider, when I was presenting formulas, scriptural texts, and logic, the wall was up - the books came out.
He won't rely on his own logic - the poor guy keep attempting to leverage their convoluted crap. I'm trying to get there.
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39
Gregorian Calendar
by NeverKnew ini'm suffering from a vicious cycle.
put the research down - declare i'm not doing it anymore because it sickens me, ponder, make another aha connection, get sickened by it, put the research down, declare i'm not doing it anymore because it sickens me.. ponder.
i'm glad it's not just me.. i think my jw friend has been embarrassed one time too many with wt historical facts and so now he has asked me to help him understand my concerns and present him with some research that validates it.
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NeverKnew
Tater - he's exactly right.
Amelia - you're a clown! :)
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39
Gregorian Calendar
by NeverKnew ini'm suffering from a vicious cycle.
put the research down - declare i'm not doing it anymore because it sickens me, ponder, make another aha connection, get sickened by it, put the research down, declare i'm not doing it anymore because it sickens me.. ponder.
i'm glad it's not just me.. i think my jw friend has been embarrassed one time too many with wt historical facts and so now he has asked me to help him understand my concerns and present him with some research that validates it.
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NeverKnew
Crap... can't open the Carl Sagan link. I know nothing about him. Googling him now.
Amelia: LOVE that, I'll use it. Since Jehovah lives in the heavens and witnesses the same sunrises, does he have a cosmonaut calendar he uses? AND given HIS ability to travel faster and differently and given the concept of time in heaven with respect to our perception, ... wow, how did they scripturally knock HIS calendar off the list?
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How do I tell my husband?
by dissonance_resolved ini'm a born in, baptized as a young teenager, whole family is jw.
i just recently woke up after the new understanding of the fds was announced and it seemed to me to smack of power-grabbing.
i started looking at all the websites we're not supposed to, and now i know why.
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NeverKnew
Welcome dissonance!
I'm dating a baptized born-in. I came at him with 'questions' from all angles for a darn YEAR. Fortunately, I have the freedom to play stupid and I don't have access to the materials as JWs do so I could take full advantage of my ignorance to what I thought, was no avail. I'm now learning things seeped in.
Interestingly enough, in all that I threw at him, the darn eyelid opener was the evolution of the vaccination doctrine! He had been on me about getting my flu shot and I replied, "Okay. The fact that you're up on that doctrine's new light means a lot to me. Btw, what are your thoughts on how the WTS equated that with cannibalism? Can you imagine how it would have felt as an elder to have counseled a family who lost a loved on only to have the doctrine change later? It would have killed me had that happened to us." He was completely floored with that revelation.
I then provided him with this... http://jehovahswitnessrevealed.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/vaccine.PDF . *
I've learned something else. Part of his new angst is the fact that people on the outside of the organization have more information than he has access to and he's starting to realize the disadvantage he has. This poor man was reading that whitewashed history book and I suspect the whitewashing became evident so he put it down.
*As an fyi, I use JW facts and other sites to get my understanding down pat but to introduce concepts I use documents from http://jehovahswitnessrevealed.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/ and ask him to explain the quotes or the evolution thereof. It's worked wonders. After vaccination, I moved on to the evolution of the organ transplant doctrine. Once he sees and accepts the evolution of the former, he'll more easily swallow the possibility of the blood doctrine moving in that direction (which it already has).
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39
Gregorian Calendar
by NeverKnew ini'm suffering from a vicious cycle.
put the research down - declare i'm not doing it anymore because it sickens me, ponder, make another aha connection, get sickened by it, put the research down, declare i'm not doing it anymore because it sickens me.. ponder.
i'm glad it's not just me.. i think my jw friend has been embarrassed one time too many with wt historical facts and so now he has asked me to help him understand my concerns and present him with some research that validates it.
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NeverKnew
I'm suffering from a vicious cycle. Put the research down - declare I'm not doing it anymore because it sickens me, ponder, make another aha connection, get sickened by it, put the research down, declare I'm not doing it anymore because it sickens me.. ponder. I'm glad it's not just me.
I think my JW friend has been embarrassed one time too many with WT historical facts and so now he has asked me to help him understand my concerns and present him with some research that validates it. Don't worry, I know he'll have to do some on his own so he won't get everything. We are BACK to the formula of 1914. I told him I would break that formula down to small bites. He's aware of the original 1874 Armageddon prediction which then became an invisible presence claim and that 1914 was originally an Armageddon prediction that... well you know the rest.
Here's my first question for him to ponder. There are intentional flaws in the wording of this e-mail to see if he actually researches the topic to correct me. I'm sure some of you will catch them. For those of you who don't, don't lose sleep, they're incredibly subtle to the point of arguably valid.
On the formula 607 BC + 2520 years = 1914...
How did Russell scripturally determine that a calendar system that didn't exist at the time of the biblical writings was the appropriate one to use to predict Christ's return? The use of other calendar systems would put the date +/- 50 years or more. The one chosen by Russell/Rutherford wasn't adopted until the 16th century (400 years ago).
Broad overview of Calendar Systems (does not include the ancient Asian calendaring systems)
The history of calendars spans several thousand years. In many early civilizations, calendar systems were developed. For example, in Sumer, the birthplace of the modern sexagesimal system, there were 12 months of 29 or 30 days apiece, much like the modern Gregorian calendar. Mesoamerican cultures also developed their own intricate calendars; the ancient Maya had two separate years—the 260-day Sacred Round, and the 365-day Vague Year. Classical Greek and Roman cultures also developed calendars; the ancient Athenians, for one, had a lunisolar calendar that lasted 364 days, with an intercalary month added every other year. The Romans used two different year lengths; the older one had 304 days divided into 10 months; the newer 365 days divided into 12 months; very much like the modern calendar. They counted years from the founding of Rome, or, sometimes, from the reign of the current consul.
During the early Middle Ages, various local calendars were used in Europe. The presently common Anno Domini system was developed in the 8th century, but the system only became common several centuries later, and even then, rival systems remained in use. Distinct from the rest of Europe, the Scandinavian Vikings maintained their own calendar during this time, which was divided into two seasons; summer and winter. A definition of the calendar day resembling the modern one was first stated in the latter part of the 13th century. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_calendars)
But what do the scriptures tell us?
Matthew 24:36-39
New International Version (NIV)
36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
Matthew 24:42
New International Version (NIV)
42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come.
Mark 13:35-37
American Standard Version (ASV)
35 Watch therefore: for ye know not when the lord of the house cometh, whether at even, or at midnight, or at cockcrowing, or in the morning;
Luke 12:40
English Standard Version (ESV)
40 You also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.”
2 Peter 3:10
American Standard Version (ASV)
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall be dissolved with fervent heat, and the earth and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Revelation 16:15
New International Version (NIV)
15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”
2 Peter 1:16
American Standard Version (ASV)
16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
Wish me luck!
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My non-jw cousin was a victim of a hit and run invite...
by NeverKnew ini'm now the receiver of all queries jw since everyone knows about my beloved.... the first words out of her mouth?
"hey!
some jws came by and handed this invitation to me for something called a memorial.
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NeverKnew
I'm now the receiver of all queries JW since everyone knows about my beloved...
The first words out of her mouth? "Hey! Some JWs came by and handed this invitation to me for something called a memorial. It says they're inviting me to an "anniversary" of Jesus' death. Are they kidding? They're celebrating Christ's death? Isn't that a little creepy? Do they know he "rose again in accordance with the scriptures...?" (non jws would recognize the sarcasm).
Me: Uh, yeah... see....
Cousin: Uh yeah... is this a seance or something? It's in the evening. What happens when it gets dark? Is this a candelight vigil or something?
Me: Uh, hmm... good question... I dunno does it say?
Cousin: It says that I have to go and find out if death ends it all... wtf? You sure there's nobody being sacrificed at this thing? Like, will there be a real live demonstration? Why the preoccupation with death?
Me: They kinda have this preoccupation with Armageddon.
Cousin: I'd need to be preoccupied with some anxiety meds if I heard THAT every weekend. You wanna go? I'll give you my thing here...
Me:
So, this is what it sounds/looks like to us non-jws. I will go and pick up the invite and try to empty my brain of all that I've learned and give you my thoughts.
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The ten most embarrassing scriptures for Jehovah's Witnesses
by slimboyfat in1. mark 7:15 "there is nothing from outside a man that passes into him that can defile him; but the things that issue forth out of a man are the things that defile a man.. so how can eating black pudding or having a blood transfusion be a sin?.
2. roman 14:5 one [man] judges one day as above another; another [man] judges one day as others; let each one be convinced in his own mind.
so how come they say birthdays and festivals are a sin?.
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NeverKnew
Marking
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Westboro Brainwashing...
by NeverKnew inare her words familiar?.
http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_c3#/video/us/2013/03/05/pmt-drain-ex-member-westboro-baptist-church.cnn.
edit to add video... i hope (i've never done this).. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khsdvptmgfo.
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NeverKnew
My only disappointment was that she didn't use the word "shun" when speaking of her current relationship with her father. :(
Tater, could you help me by telling me how this would have impacted you if someone would have presented it to you when you were in? What thoughts would have gone through your mind as you listened to her?
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NeverKnew
Wow... all this time I thought they were competing with the traditional Christians and holding this service on Good Friday.
"Church service on Tuesday? Hmph... sorry. Gotta work on Wednesday."
