Posts by seven006

40

An Opinion Question

by DIMs Wife in

jw
friends

do you think that it is better to be disassociated or disfellowshipped or do you think that drifting away is the best option?

I don't think there is absolutely one right answer to this question. Each person has different circumstances in their life that makes what ever decision they make on this issue personal to themselves. The key here is to get out, how it is done is irrelevant to the actual action. Saying someone is a coward for choosing a different path than your own is a selfish out look on someone else's life that has nothing to do with your own.

Shouting from the roof tops about switching teams is very self indulgent and is reminiscent of the JW mindset about bringing attention to your self as being a good little JW. What is right for one does not mean it is right for another.

Dave

85

The Debate: Do JW's Need Respect?

by Mindchild in

jw
friends

this thread will hopefully serve as the platform for a friendly debate about the issue of how much respect the watchtower society deserves from ex-jehovah's witnesses.

do we blast the hell out of the borg and don't let a kind word in edgewise?

do we acknowledge that they have done some things right and (shudder) even good?

seven006

Enigma

Main Entry: enig·ma
Pronunciation: i-'nig-m&, e-
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin aenigma, from Greek ainigmat-, ainigma, from ainissesthai to speak in riddles, from ainos fable
Date: 15th century
1 : an obscure speech or writing
2 : something hard to understand or explain
3 : an inscrutable or mysterious person

I'm right, your wrong and you will see that when you die. How do I know that? Well, So and So says in Bob's holy law chapter twooty tow Verse a bazillion and four that..........

I love this stuff. What a perpetual marketing plan to make you look good and me bad. If there is a god I'm sure he/she/it is feeling like he just farted in a crowded elevator about now. How embarrassed he/she/it must be to look down/up/sideways and see us all trying to kill each other with our theoretical kindness. What a terrific game we all play in our personal attempts to fit our square lives into this round planet.

I especially love the part where each little religious group takes credit for claiming basic human kindness as an exclusive concept to their particular guess about what life is all about. Basic human kindness is not dependent on any religious theology. It stays the same and remains the property of any individual who chooses to show it and receive it regardless of whether they are religious or not. It is the philosophy of religion when taken to a fanatic extreme that causes the opposite of human kindness in the way of human suffering.

Like many other fanatic religious sects of all the world religions the JW's are a sect of Christianity whether they want to believe it or not. They have taken the Christian religion to the level of fanaticism by their mixing the teachings of love and hate together. Love what we tell you to love and hate what we tell you to hate and don't ask any questions or you'll die.

In that regard I do not respect the JW religion one bit, nor do I any person who thinks that they are absolutely right about the concept of god. No one can absolutely prove anything in this regard and if they think they can they are only fooling themselves.

Sermon over now I'm going to make myself a nice drink.

Take care,

Dave

31

This web site, your comments as evidence

by joelbear in

jw
friends

in the case of silent lambs versus the christian congregation of jehovah's witnesses.. did you ever think that discussing these cases here accompanied by your vitriole against all things watchtower could be used to:.

1. show that ex jehovahs witnesses harbor such a hatred for the watchtower society that they will say anything to discredit them.. 2. show that there is a network of ex jehovahs witnesses that may have helped to create these abuse accusations in the alledged victims' minds or at least have encouraged them, even unwittingly, to exaggerate their claims.. i guarantee you that the watchtower society has documented every word anyone here has said, especially on this issue.

i can easily see a defense team using it to, if not exonerate accused molesters and the watchtower society, to at least create a reasonable doubt regarding their guilt.. if your hatred of the watchtower causes you to join in irrational behavior and accusations, you have to contemplate the fact that you may be adding to the future grief of any real victims.. i present this for your thoughtful consideration.. as always, i wish all here peace.. joel

seven006

JoelBear,

As you have admonished those on the board to ponder your comments I will in turn give you a few things to think about.

I have noticed that ever since your visit with your mom and dad you have begun what looks like a slow 180 degree turn. This is very understandable and somewhat easy to predict given your caring manner and love of people.

You have made implications that you may even wish to try and return to your previous religion. In your slow rotation you are beginning to rationalize things you once were so sure of. Your latest comments about the silent lambs issue and your way of feeling that it is us as exJW's that speak in a blanket manner in regard to our ex-religion's members seems a bit out of balance.

I agree that some have a blanket hatred toward the JW religion and they may in their own right have reasons for this. I think the majority have problems with the leaders and doctrine of the JW's and not their people.

It is the JW's who are absolute and united in their hatred for all those who are not JW's. Have you forgotten what you were taught? Everyone out side of the JW religion is considered evil and followers of a mythical spirit entity named Satan the devil. Each and every one of us as exJW's that post on this board are considered "apostates" and have an even higher level of disgust in the eyes of the "average" JW than those who are just looked at as plain evil doers.

It is the JW's who teach their children that we are so disgustingly evil as human beings that it is a sin just to have a meal with us or consider us anything less than the opposite of themselves. The JW's do not say that some people they call apostates are good and others evil, they consider us all evil. They say we make things up to make them look bad. They tell their followers not to talk to us or read anything that we may write. We are the epitome of evil to them.

Joel, you have been on this board for some time now. If you return to the religion will you look at us in the way that you are told too? Will you look at the friends you made here and make a list of which ones of us are evil? Will you join in the thought that we all sit at the table of demons and our lives are not deserving of even the slightest bit of love or compassion from your fellow JW's?

Joel, do you really think that if you did return to the JW religion that ALL your new brothers and sisters will embrace you as a true friend after they shower you with their initial welcome? Do you think all JW men would welcome you and invite you to their homes to eat and associate with their families after knowing you have spent many years as a gay man? Can you find me just ONE JW that will not see a gay man as an abomination in the eyes of their god? IS Mitch an abomination in your eyes Joel? Do you think just being celibate is the answer to your real existence on this earth and will put you in favor of the JW interpretation of god? Isn't it what is in your heart that they say their god looks to see the real persons feelings?

You say you can not become "ungay." That is not the truth according to JW teaching and you know that. Are you saying your complete existence is a lie and all this time you have spent with Mitch is just a game? Don't you know that a simple statement that you love Mitch is considered disgusting and perverted by ALL JW's? EACH and EVERY JW sees you as a pervert Joel, every one of them!

Now, who is making the blanket statements? Who is showing real love to you? Who will always consider you a friend no matter what you choose to do? Who Accepts you as you and not you as what you agree to believe? Do you really think that Robert (You Know) will welcome you with open arms?

Your trip to see your parents was an emotional one. You love them and you miss them. That is easy to see and easy to understand. But, if you really think the answer is going back to the religion because it is the only way your family and old friends will accept you as a fellow human being then you will find that you are sadly mistaken. A real friend sticks by his friends no matter what, have your old friends stuck by you Joel?

It is the JW's who consider all of us as perverted and evil, not the other way around.

Take care Joel, I hope you find peace in what ever you decide to do.

Dave

9

Anti-independent thinking

by sadiejive in

jw
friends

cyberguy posted on sept 16:.

today's watchtower lesson instructs witnesses not to think for themselves when it comes to bible understanding:.

augest 1, 2001, p. 14, par.

seven006

I'm in a weird mood today Andi. I think I need to go sit in the corner for a while.

Dave

9

Anti-independent thinking

by sadiejive in

jw
friends

cyberguy posted on sept 16:.

today's watchtower lesson instructs witnesses not to think for themselves when it comes to bible understanding:.

augest 1, 2001, p. 14, par.

seven006

If god wanted us to think for ourselves he would have given us a brain.

Sorry, just cracking myself up.

Dave

49

YoYo: proof?

by cynicus in

jw
friends

yoyo says:.

i wanted to prove to myself that what the watchtower says about apostates is true.. now what a refreshing idea!

am i correct in assuming that you did this also for other topics the watchtower has opinions on?.

seven006

I don't know what all the big fuss is about dates anyway. If the watchtower society screws up a date they just make up another one, call it new light and all the JW's can go back to sleep.

It's fool proof, and I mean that in more ways than one.

Dave

57

Resignation - not that it matters at all, but ....

by TheOldHippie in

jw
friends

i just wanted those kind-hearted, those gentle, those friendly ones of you to know that i wrote my letter of resignation as an elder yesterday, after having served in that capasity for 24 years.. those wishing to call me or any society "bastard", "sucker", "braindead" or anything, as they have before, i would ask please to refrain from that.

other comments would be welcome.. somehow, it is the armstrong quote about "one small step for man, one giant leap for humankind" (approximately) the other way around, "one giant leap for (a) man, one hardly noticeable step for humankind".. ok, that was that.

seven006

Awwwwww Moe, your just saying that cuz you want me.

You do want me don't you? Even just a little bit? For a second?

I can help you with that smoking problemmmmm.

Big hug,

Dave

Gumby,

Oooooohmmm back at'ca.

Dave

49

YoYo: proof?

by cynicus in

jw
friends

yoyo says:.

i wanted to prove to myself that what the watchtower says about apostates is true.. now what a refreshing idea!

am i correct in assuming that you did this also for other topics the watchtower has opinions on?.

seven006

Go YoYo Go!

Call Alan! Set him straight! I'm sick and tired of him always being right! My money is on you YoYo!

Hey, I use to sit in the visitor section at football games. Someone has to cheer for the underdog.

Jan.H, I think people would take you more seriously if you put your shirt on. Give Harmony a hug for me.

I hope you guys wrap this up soon, I'm running out of popcorn!

Dave

57

Resignation - not that it matters at all, but ....

by TheOldHippie in

jw
friends

i just wanted those kind-hearted, those gentle, those friendly ones of you to know that i wrote my letter of resignation as an elder yesterday, after having served in that capasity for 24 years.. those wishing to call me or any society "bastard", "sucker", "braindead" or anything, as they have before, i would ask please to refrain from that.

other comments would be welcome.. somehow, it is the armstrong quote about "one small step for man, one giant leap for humankind" (approximately) the other way around, "one giant leap for (a) man, one hardly noticeable step for humankind".. ok, that was that.

seven006

YoYo,
Old Hippy believed as you do and stayed an elder for 24 years. It looks like you have no praise or respect for him for all that time. Without knowledge of why he did what he did why do you so quickly turn your back on him? If he decided to eventually go back to being an elder how would you feel about your comments then? You do not know the mans heart, but you are showing us yours as a JW elder and it looks pretty cold. Again, try using your heart and try to imagine how he feels right now. He is a fellow human and served as an elder a lot longer than you say you have. Show a little respect toward him just as you expect from others and do not be so quick to judge. You have more compassion in your heart than what you show on this board, I know you do. Try bringing out your human side and not your JW side to try and understand a few things. It might help YOU be a better elder.

Old Hippy.

There is an old saying: "The journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step." You have just begun. There is one huge wonderful world for you to discover out there. As you find that out you will grow to appreciate the good things in relation to what you learned in the religion. You will also find out that those good things were not exclusive to the JW teaching but rather a common philosophy followed by just plain good people.

I feel bad for the sadness that this decision may bring you but I know it will not last forever. You now will be able to enjoy a different perspective on life and it will make you stronger than you ever thought possible. You are still the same person you have always been. You will just find out you re a better person than you thought you were.

Take care and take a few deep breaths, your life will never be the same.

Dave

20

Is there porn in the wt-literature?

by Carlo in

jw
friends

have a look on the picture in wt 1. january '97.. .

this is the entire page.

below is a zoom on the two men dealing magazines in the middle.. .

seven006

Carlo

What you see is what you want to see. There is not any porn or subliminal images in the watchtower publications. I have seen the book on the JW subliminal art and the allegations are completely untrue and is simply a pissed of exJW trying to make an issue out of something that does not exist.

I spent many years as a professional illustrator and and graphic designer and have worked with and did some teaching with the art department at Bethel. It is true that they take photos of the Bethel members to use as reference material in their illustrations in the same way most professional illustrators do including myself. There are some very talents artist in the JW art department and there are also some not so talented artist.

There is one artist who is very talented in the department that did a lot of oil paintings and used himself as the reference material many times in the same painting. His original paintings are beautiful but seeing his image all over the place makes them extremely entertaining. He asked me several times if I thought he was good enough to make a living with his art if he left Bethel, I told him he was and I believe he eventually left.

Since the elders running both the art and photography departments are not what I would consider real professionals at their jobs it is easy for low quality illustrations to end up in the publications. Folds in clothing and poorly illustrated sections of art are pretty much normal when untrained and amateurish artist try and paint certain subject matter. Anyone can read anything into poorly rendered art, but that doesn't mean why they think they see is intentional.

As Alan says, there is enough real bullshit going on in the JW organization you do not need to try and make stuff up to make them look bad. When you do, it just makes their case about us all being lying apostates trying to make them look bad a little stronger.

I hope this helps.

Dave