in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
The trinity is the early church fathers trying to reconcile the idea that Jesus is the physical manifestation of god in the Old Testament, the fact Paul is applying the YHWH to christ and Jesus is called god, yet Jesus seems to be in subjection to god. I don’t think there is anything short slighted or sinister about it.
If you believe the bible is total bullshit, that is fine. I don’t can’t stand the selective narcissism of the watchtower . There is literally no idea of the bible narrative.
in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
Mathew 28 19. There is your three in a single verse and a pretty important one as well.
Wow, that is kind of a drop the mic moment , wouldn’t you say boogerman.
in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
Hebrews 7:3 I think literally says Jesus has no beginning or end.
in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
I guess if we isolate verses and pretend we are Greek experts and ignore the Jews wanting to kill Jesus because he was claiming he was claiming God as his father thus making himself equal with god. Or the whole glorify the son as the father, jesus creating the everything in the world etc etc.
You would think if god created Jesus, the bible would have been more clear on the subject, instead of a proverb, a line in the book of revelation ( which could mean supreme ruler ) or a verse Colossians which more likely means era to humanity.
Why doesn't the bible start with god created Jesus and Jesus created everything, instead of " let us create man in our image ".
in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07fprxcX25E
I don't like posting videos but also hate the idea of an ex-jw board being feed with jw nonsense.
in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
I have never really thought the bible narrative was really pointing towards the idea that God created an Angel , who then created everything. It kind of makes God look like a lazy bastard. It seems more like the invisible omnipotent god who can not tolerate sin became a visible touchable manifestation outside of himself to have contact with sinful humanity.
A verse that has kind of puzzled me was at the end of the bible " 3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.".
God and the Lamb seems to be referred to as the same person. Weird.
the road to tyranny exposes:
*how dozens of fbi and defense intelligence agents were threatened with arrest by the federal government if they got in the way of al-qaeda operations.
*how the cia trained, funded and protected bin laden.
The way Alex Jones tried to profit off the Sandy Hook shooting, he is literally a lower form of scum than the governing body.
https://www.upi.com/top_news/world-news/2024/06/16/russia-tortures-jehovahs-witness/3971718239875/ .
russia is amping up to severe torture for jws.
i don't think this is appropriate behaviour for anyone..
If a JW needed evidence we need to have a Military and we need to protect secular democracy , just look to the Russia/Ukraine conflict. Of course the Borg will never appreciate the sacrifice some people make so they are free to teach their nonsense.
the trinity doctrine says god is three persons in one being.. yet the bible says god is one.. gal 3.20 a mediator, however, implies more than one party; but god is one.
niv.
gal 3.20 now a mediator is not for just one person, but god is one.
The new testament and the ambiguous use of the term lord is rooted in a believe that Jesus was the Angel of the Lord, the word of the Lord, The Glory of the Lord, The Wisdom of the Lord in the old testament. The figure that seemed to be separate and yet equal with god.
The objections to this usually follow three paths.
1. Jesus speaking in this humanity. John 17.3
2. Verses out context. ie ( firstborn of creation )
3. God somehow gives his power and authority to another person who asks acts and speaks as god but isn't, those making Jehovah just a god.
I understand a lot of this is quite if a tree falls in the forest , what came first , the chicken or the egg etc etc.
The quite remarkable part is how little a JW knows about the new testament narrative. It is just nuts that a person can go door to door claiming to teach the bible with no clue of the unfolding story.
i open a new topic, to find out how it's going in your area.
from what i see as a southern european in my constituency the situation is patchy.. the congregation where i am now has 30% old people on zoom but also young couples with almost all their cameras off.
no increase but a slight decrease in the total number of publishers.. circuit assemblies: before covid you couldn't find a free seat if you arrived 10 minutes before the start.
Our hall is growing through immigration , as is all of Canada. The majority are still very old and the majority of younger ones are still unmarried and childless. People in there late 20s to mid 30s think they have all this time, to establish themselves with a career and family. Sadly they are mistaken.
I guess this isn't a problem unique to the JWs. Our hall although growing somewhat is still a demograhics nightmare.
