Posts by ShotWhileTryingToEscape

46

Sound Familiar?

by peacefulpete in

a republican congressman voted his conscience to impeach trump.

the results might surprise some of us.. "my dad's cousins sent me a petition - a certified letter - saying they disowned me because i'm in 'the devil's army' now," kinzinger said in a phone conversation on thursday.

"it's been crazy, when you have friends - that you thought were good friends that would love you no matter what - that don't.".

ShotWhileTryingToEscape

People have to belong to teams. —wozza

I agree with you most strongly. Though you said “a lot of things contribute to change”, wozza, the pressure to “join up” is really powerful. Especially when there is a dominant person or persons can make or break you and your family. Then we feel we must choose their side whether or not we agree with the values and concerns they hold. Soon so many of your family, neighbors and friends jump on the team no one can tell who is “all in” . Everyone ? Or are done holding back— like you.

(We should understand how subversive this forced can be; in JW land the need to conform made it hard to live with a marriage partner if we held non-conformist views — would they leave us? “out” us to the other team members?)

Yea, People feel like they have to belong to teams .

But about The U.S, being different? I disagree. For Covid I have been reading books and scholars papers to understand the mindset of soldiers and civilians North and South before during and after our American Civil War.

I was surprised to find the people back then no different in their general attitudes similar to everything I see and hear of my neighbors and friends now! Even the pressure to join something you did not support ( on both sides!) was there . There was anti- immigrant rhetoric, racism, charges of election fraud over the election of the “Rail Splitter” in the White House, and do on—even Fake News shows up as a complain early in the War. And the inflamed passions ! No wonder there was a war.

Why is there such a political divide though? That is still the question to answer.

If I try to respond to Mean Mr, Mustards Mustard’s question I will have to say it later because it was way late when I saw these posts snd l have to get some slerep.💤🌙

31

If only someone had kicked my a$$.. (This is post is not for theists)

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i think back on the 30+ years of bs as well as my fading almost a decade and even now being low key in person to hopefully save my nieces from the wt.

i'm a wreck in some ways.

i'm other days i'm stable however when it comes to theism i depart quickly and with anger!

ShotWhileTryingToEscape

Disillusioned JW,

You say information from people helped you leave the JWs . But it was information after initial doubts had come to you, doubts unprompted by ass-kickers.

To quote you: At times in my life, tactful direct argumentation with clear evidence from books would have helped me discover the truth much sooner than I did.”

The relevant phrase being “ At Times in my life”

And later “The ex-JWs from a distance told the JWs they don't need to talk to them (where other JWs could see them and thus get them in trouble for talking to 'apostates'), but instead that after they get home they can secretly look up the claims for themselves in the WT's literature, with the aid of the internet.”

It sounds like you kicked your own ass/made the-truth-about-the -Truth-your-own. Not to say others did not provide any information (And good for them that they went to the trouble to make it available !) But your story suggests that you were not force fed. You already were pretty hungry when facts presented themselves.

The protesters outside of the convention didn’t crowd up on you either. They recognized JWs need privacy if they might ever explore“apostate “ info. In fact I was totally “out” before I would talk about the BS of the WBTS program with anybody else.

ActuaI I think your story is a great description of the way it happens for so many of us. Slow starts, then fast—fast and gone.

31

If only someone had kicked my a$$.. (This is post is not for theists)

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i think back on the 30+ years of bs as well as my fading almost a decade and even now being low key in person to hopefully save my nieces from the wt.

i'm a wreck in some ways.

i'm other days i'm stable however when it comes to theism i depart quickly and with anger!

ShotWhileTryingToEscape

Wow, Jan.

I posted on peaceful pete’s thread and referred to this very thread before seeing your remark above.

I agree.

46

Sound Familiar?

by peacefulpete in

a republican congressman voted his conscience to impeach trump.

the results might surprise some of us.. "my dad's cousins sent me a petition - a certified letter - saying they disowned me because i'm in 'the devil's army' now," kinzinger said in a phone conversation on thursday.

"it's been crazy, when you have friends - that you thought were good friends that would love you no matter what - that don't.".

ShotWhileTryingToEscape

“We should be able to spot propaganda and Ideological Possession better than most. It’s puzzling that some here do not. “

—DD

So here on the board you find it puzzling that we can’t always spot propaganda and political possession? It’s a process,DD. It takes time. Didn’t a lot of us arrive not really able to understand what had happened and why? And we still are— many of us trying to understand.

If I am not mistaken, one poster, cofty, said he became an evangelical pastor after leaving the JWs. Eventually he became an atheist. Now —that is a journey! He bounced on landing like most of us. He didn’t have an instant recognition of “propaganda and ideological possession”.It took time.

But, that said— must we all agree with him? No.

I have seen some on this board leave (or be expelled?) because of disagreements over social and political views. What the hell?

It would have been better for all( even the lurkers!) If basic respect for the other person was used. Just basic respect.

HowTheBibleWasCreated has a coversation going now asking why no one gave him the a**kicking he needed to get him out of the Cult. Virtually all responsers to HTBWC ‘s OP maintain that direct attacks never succeed with JWs.

Yet direct attacks happen here when it’s political and it doesn’t help change anyone’s thinking either. In fact it only seems to freeze a position. Can’t we sift through things together with respect? And let the discussion be deeper not hotter.

Personally, I lurked here a long time before venturing into the forum. Why? I wasn’t sure if it was safe for someone who had already been ShotWhileTryingToEscape.

I love your OP, peacefulpete, and yet am sorry for you that your dad’s dying prompted it. Much appreciation for launching an open discussion instead of a divisive diatribe.

31

If only someone had kicked my a$$.. (This is post is not for theists)

by HowTheBibleWasCreated in

i think back on the 30+ years of bs as well as my fading almost a decade and even now being low key in person to hopefully save my nieces from the wt.

i'm a wreck in some ways.

i'm other days i'm stable however when it comes to theism i depart quickly and with anger!

ShotWhileTryingToEscape

I appreciate jhine’s Anglican perspective “Control by one human being over another isn't love and l agree it has no place in Christianity”

Having Anglican friends and family that are open, loving, service oriented people I became curious and attended some of their Sunday services.

I saw a lot of freedom there — along with life styles that more rigid religions find abhorrent or unscriptural. While Anglicans are criticized for being unorthodox (i.e. wrong teaching) when it came to compassion vs. control they clearly opted for compassion. Freedom allowing freedom. And where was the harm?

But how could any such reasoning touch us who were “ in the Truth”?

The WTS rulers (who hilariously call themselves “Slaves”) published a book I read. The title used Jesus’ words “The Truth will set you free” . Also the Slave named their JW belief system“The Truth”. Their Truth was so regimented that we couldn’t gather for bible discussions outside of the official propaganda sessions without reproof —or worse!

We gradually accepted the complete loss of freedom so we could live *happily* in the Truth— the Truth that sets you free.

This is classic gaslighting.

We wouldn’t listen to the ignorance and lies of critics that would rob us of our freedom.

So I agree with all of the above who say that direct confrontation wouldn’t have helped you, HTBWC. In fact I don’t believe direct confrontation helped any of us escape.

12

What to say? Death of an adult child.

by jwundubbed in

my father married b when both her children and his children were grown adults.

b had two children, a son d and a daughter m. my sister db, my brother rh, and myself got along well with m but not at all with d, who was a very christian person but not a jw.

my siblings and i do not have much to do with our stepmother though we are civil and we don't have any hard feelings between us.

ShotWhileTryingToEscape

We lost a baby through miscarriage. Nothing anyone said helped if they went beyond “ I am so sorry.” And people did say things that hit wrong. Yet if a person who said nothing at all made my loss insignificant. And surely people are often at a loss to say anything— just as you are now.

No platitudes, no scriptures, no “It’s for the best.” helped. But acknowledging my grief meant a lot.

Years later a close friend lost her 18 year old son when the driver flipped the car in which her son was a passenger. She was devastated. I told her l didn’t have any wise words for her. Just that I was just so sorry.

She still shares moments of grief that wash over her from time to time. She is the one who needs to say something. I just need to hear her.

Just send a simple acknowledgment in your own words, friend.

12

Are We Now Living in a POST-Science world (at least politically?)

by Terry in

jw
friends

if your sex is only what you say it is, without any reference to biological reality, .

your race can be only what you say it is, without any reference to biological reality.. .

is this repudiation of science?

ShotWhileTryingToEscape

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6505576/

I found many scientific article that say chromosomes are not the sole determinate to how a baby develops as male or female.

The trouble with science is that new information comes up all the time. Even scientists have to read stay current.

I had to read some of the papers through a few times to grasp the intricate interplay of genes, chromosomes , hormones etc that interact as we are getting put together in uterus. Without such information l cannot hope to understand this subject well enough to do anything but repeat old news.

I hope others find this helpful too.

SWTTE

20

Jehovah's witnesses believe in Tranys.

by mickbobcat in

so women who are of the anointed will be changed to male?

i know it says there are neither male nor female in heaven but they are never depicted as women always male gender.

so does the cult believe in the transgender crap?.

ShotWhileTryingToEscape

Thanks, Doug. You have PM

28

GameStop - Great Seeing Short-Selling Hedge Funds Get Beaten Up

by Simon in

in case you haven't seen what's happened with gamestop and redditors.. these are the people who drive companies like blockbuster out of business and put people out of work.. but maybe the people have more power after all .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9toogruq7me.

ShotWhileTryingToEscape

I love this.

My son sent me a similar link. Both report the same thing— ordinary people on Reddit turned the tables on Wallstreet.

20

Jehovah's witnesses believe in Tranys.

by mickbobcat in

so women who are of the anointed will be changed to male?

i know it says there are neither male nor female in heaven but they are never depicted as women always male gender.

so does the cult believe in the transgender crap?.

ShotWhileTryingToEscape

dubstepped—

Kicking ideas around without hostility is the very thing we were forbidden as JWs. So thanks.

Did Jesus-as-Christ-God’s-Son ever exist? Dunno, Don’t care. But we know there have always been individuals that push against the system . So I don’t think it far-fetched that some carpenter back then could have pushed back about things in his (religious) community too. Too bad the words of Jesus-the-Carpenter became institutionalized and buried by religion. Then folk don’t get to kick around the moving target we call life.

I enjoyed your post whatever your reason for engaging. That selection made discussion richer. For one thing —it reflects the deep misogyny of that community —sort of a hot mic moment.

For myself, Jesus didn’t have to be the Son of God to be inspirational. And he probably was a bit of a nut case in much the same way thst I was a JW nut case. But he ( like many on this board) felt the wrongness of it somehow. So I feel sympathy for Jesus for kind of going crazy .

So, stripping the Jesus story of the divine parts still is still inspiring to me because he did push back against cruel and unfair behaviors justified by religion . If he didn’t do it perfectly so what? I don’t worship him. In fact he is the more inspirational for not being perfect - for bring a human-and still trying.

Mickbobcat’s OP— even if it was lobbed as an incendiary— ultimately helped reveal the Watchtower’s persistent ugliness toward women. And your “Thomas” post underscored a Judeo/Christian legacy of deep misogyny: females not deserving of life.

So the conversation was not entirely dumb (although l initially treated it like that in the beginning ) Then DougMason stepped in with his serious consideration and the matter was on another footing.

At this point I will leave the conversation. I know I have gone far enough. And thank you all.

ShotWhileTryingToEscape

EDIT:

Hello, Diogenesister!

I posted without seeing your comments—haha! what a balance between serious and hilarious. I will watch from the sidelines ;-)