can someone help me understand how the wt came up with the overlapping generation theory?
i just don't understand it even though i read the information several times.
it's bewildering.
Freddo:
WOW!!!
Thank you very much for your explanation. Based on what you wrote it appears that for a very long time they have been toying with the heads of sincere persons. They are basically exploiting the human condition and our collective desire to live under more peaceful conditions.
Wow that really stings. It's unkind. Jesus was kind and loving. They are not.
Thank you.
can someone help me understand how the wt came up with the overlapping generation theory?
i just don't understand it even though i read the information several times.
it's bewildering.
Hi Finkelstein:
So it is basically a fill in? What you wrote makes sense. You are right they put so much into the whole 1914 thing that they are trying to hold onto it. I really appreciate your response. Thank you.
Hi Xanthippe:
Thank you so much!
The thing is the only persons who brings up these dates or anything relating to when Jesus Christ is coming is the GB. No other organization dwells on that issue but everyone knows its importance. So when you really look at it, we are being urged to serve Jehovah to a date. It's implied.
What I know is the bible says that Jesus Christ will come like a thief in the night, and no human will know when he will come. So they need not present theories as if they have new light from God, that's deceptive.
Cheers.
can someone help me understand how the wt came up with the overlapping generation theory?
i just don't understand it even though i read the information several times.
it's bewildering.
Gayle,
I love what Westiebilly11 said "twaddle masquerading as new light..."
At least I can shed feeling foolish. It's clear that others are having trouble with this theory. It makes no sense.
can someone help me understand how the wt came up with the overlapping generation theory?
i just don't understand it even though i read the information several times.
it's bewildering.
Tornapart:
I read it several times and did not understand how anyone could accept it as something real. It does cause you to question your reasoning and acceptance of other theories. Thanks for your input.
can someone help me understand how the wt came up with the overlapping generation theory?
i just don't understand it even though i read the information several times.
it's bewildering.
Hello:
Can someone help me understand how the WT came up with the overlapping generation theory? I just don't understand it even though I read the information several times. It's bewildering. Does anyone know how persons in the organization accepted this new light when it was released?
I have not been to the Kingdom Hall in over a year, and before that I've had long absences due to neurological challenges. I missed a lot apparently because I knew nothing about the overlapping generation. I wish someone had sent me some info on this from my congregation. Upon reading it, I would have extricated myself from their spiritual asylum.
I copied and pasted the question and answer paragraph I read below:
Source:http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1102014240?q=overlapping+generation&p=par
18, 19. How may we understand Jesus’ words about “this generation,” and what may we conclude?
18 How, then, may we understand Jesus’ words about “this generation”? The generation consists of two overlapping groups of anointed ones—the first is made up of anointed ones who saw the beginning of the fulfillment of the sign in 1914 and the second, anointed ones who for a time were contemporaries of the first group. At least some of those in the second group will live to see the beginning of the coming tribulation. The two groups form one generation because their lives as anointed Christians overlapped for a time.*
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I feel foolish having been a part of this organization. Who came up with this overlapping theory? It's surreal!
Thank you,
Mica Smith
this is my first post.
i really feel i need to leave the jw's rather than go along pretending everything is perfect etc.
no friends, me at work.
Pale.Emperor:
I forgot to add Therapy buddy. It's an app that helps you prepare for your therapy sessions: You can write down things you want to bring up, and even add notes on what you took away from the session, including homework (things you need to work on). It has other nice features and it is free. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/therapy-buddy/id672229707?mt=8
I hope it will be as useful to you as it has been for me.
Cheers,
Mica Smith
this is my first post.
i really feel i need to leave the jw's rather than go along pretending everything is perfect etc.
no friends, me at work.
Dear Pale.Emperor:
Millie210's said: "Im glad you are here now. You are among true and good people. I can see that you are true and good also."
I admire your decision to share your challenge and seek support. I came here to comment because of the loneliness you expressed, and the statement about being free when your are dead, that worried me.
I know what if feels like to experience such heavy emotions. I realize you are feeling trapped. You are being pressed in from every side. And you haven't anyone in your spiritual community you can trust or turn to. You can't confide in your wife because she's your father-in-law's spy. But there is an even better option for you and many persons here said it, if you have a therapist you will have someone for you. You need psychological support. I've put together some resources for you in this post, including apps you can use now to help you cope.
It appears that your wife was raised to be in subjection to her father and even though she is married to you she has maintained that.
She's doesn't trust her own judgement because a dictatorial parent would never permit that. She's been trained to seek outside approval, namely from her dad. It is not uncommon for females with dominant dads to seek a surrogate.
This may have been what she was doing with the older man. It is also fair to assume that it was this man who pursued those photos, and groomed her about sexual fantasies. Given what I know about females she probably did not even know she had any sexual fantasies until then. He then wanted those fantasies to materialize, thus the hotel. This man is a scoundrel. What a wicked shepherd!!!
(In the last three paragraphs of this post, I have shared some free downloads including an app that may be useful to your wife. As well as information on mindful-based therapy for persons with OCD).
If your wife can apply mindfulness she may no longer automatically report to her dad. She will develop the skill to think through her decisions and develop self-confidence rather than seek instant approval. She's not a child but her conditioning from childhood still dominates her being.
It's clear from your father-in-law's behavior that he does not recognize boundaries or the rights of others. His asking you to produce your bank statement shows that he elected himself the head of your household.
He wants to overthrow your dignity, autonomy and self confidence but
what's new there, it appears to be exactly what he did to his daughter.
The problem is he has normalized this activity so your wife does not realize each time she betrays you, he is placing a greater distance between her and her dignity.
He's predictable and powerless. If he were truly powerful would he need to fight so hard to erode your peace and subjugate his daughter?
The problem here is your wife is a victim too but you can't start there.
You can't start with your wife's behavior because even though she's a big part of the problem, you have to start with you. I say this because that's what I had to do incrementally to deal with my despotic mother.
You are a whole person!!! God gave you that. You were a whole person before you met your wife, and you are a whole person now. It's not the same as feeling whole, it is the realization that you own all the parts of your inner-self that can restore you. You own your dignity. You own your capacity to achieve progress. No human is powerful enough to take that away from you. They can only try to convince you that it does not exist OR that even if it does you are not worthy of it. And, they have to do that consistently to keep you from it unless you accept their statements and live them. But even that can be undone, you just have to change your psychological diet, and create distance between you and emotional toxins especially the human kind.
The mind is very powerful this is why we must protect it, and understand what we must protect it from. The latter we have to learn. The former we must live to benefit from fully.
With that said, what can this man do to you once you have dusted off, polished, hardened, and employed your inner person? Nothing!!!
All he has is arrogance, bullying, and domineering nodes of nothingness. He's never going to fix himself. He's too busy scheming to usurp you. He's not real with himself.
He can't be real and pursue power over you and others. You on the other hand are a real person. Live your authenticity! You don't need to engage him. You don't need to respond to anything he says that you know isn't true. Direct all your energy towards empowerment.
When you have a moment take a look at these resources:
Please copy the URLS and place them in the browser.
1.) This website address below features all the contact information for the mental health foundation. It would probably sound nicer if it were called the Mind Health Foundation but you can always imagine that's the name. https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/contact You can find out if they offer free assistance for persons experiencing emotinal distress.
2.) Psychology Today has a great article on how to spot and stop manipulators. You may find this article helpful in dealing with your father-in-law. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/communication-success/201406/how-spot-and-stop-manipulators
3.) Mindfulness Coach is a free app offered by the National Center For PTSD which was developed to assist U.S. veterans, their family members, and the public however anyone, anywhere can download the app. If you have an Ipad, or Iphone you can use this app. " Mindfulness Coach was developed for people who may be experiencing emotional distress and for those wanting to maintain healthy coping practices. The app can be used on its own by those who would like mindfulness tools, or to enhance face-to-face care with a healthcare professional."
4.) I use this app along with several others it is a way of expanding my support, and my therapist supports my use of them. I hope you will find Mindfulness Coach helpful. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mindfulness-coach/id804284729?mt=8
I also recommend the Virtual Box app. It is also a free app and it has helped me cope with suicidal thoughts as I work through my challenges:https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/virtual-hope-box/id825099621?mt=8
5.) If you do not have an Ipad or Iphone you may find this other app useful. I find the Moving Forward App and Website to be extremely useful. It's like having a personal coach whom you can access at any time of the day or night. This is the link to the app:https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/moving-forward/id804300239?mt=8
And Relieflink is another great app to help you cope with the pressure that promotes thoughts about suicide if that should come up. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/relieflink/id721474553?mt=8
Resources About And For Your Wife.
1.)This amazing pdf is about Mindfulness-Based Therapies For OCD. http://www.hope4ocd.com/downloads/OCF2007_MBBT.pdf
2.) This resource features downloads that can help become more aware of her symptoms and coping strategies. http://psychology.tools/obsessive-compulsive-disorder.html
3. This last resource is from the Overcoming Series developed in your side of world, which offers low-cost self-help books and services to help persons overcome a wide-range of conditions including OCD.
The Overcoming self-help books offer courses of highly effective Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT) in book form. CBT is recommended by the NHS for the treatment of many emotional and psychological problems. Our authors are among the leading and best-qualified mental health experts in their field and our books are recommended to thousands of people by NHS psychologists.
Here is the link: http://www.overcoming.co.uk/single.htm?ipg=7551
This is the organization the Overcoming Series recommends: The British Association for Behavioural and Cognitive Psychotherapies.
All the practitioners listed are accredited members of either the British Association for Behavioural & Cognitive Psychotherapies (BABCP), which is the lead organisation for CBT in the UK and Ireland, or the Association for Rational Emotive Behaviour Therapy (AREBT).
http://www.cbtregisteruk.com/Default.aspx
Lastly the Mindfulness Coach App can also be used by your wife.
Cheers,
Mica Smith
dear forum members:.
i have read through the rules on what can be posted and what is disallowed.
i believe that i have not posted anything that disrespects those standards.
Dear Forum Members:
I have read through the rules on what can be posted and what is disallowed. I believe that I have not posted anything that disrespects those standards. I recently posted: A Troubling Culture: JW Group Think vs. Individual Critical Thinking.
The post featured links as do each of my three topic posts but this time it appears only one link works. The other links, link back to this website instead of the intended destination. I contacted Simon but never got a response.
If I have done something wrong, it would help to know.
Sincerely,
MicaS.
i had no idea that the resistance, governance, and duplicity i am experiencing as a jehovah witness is actually part of a bigger behavioral issue that permeates the entire jehovah witness culture.. i was troubled by the fact that many persons who have been crushed by the unfair practices of jw leadership described themselves as former members of the jw cult, and, or, apostates.
the latter bothered me to a greater degree because i felt the word apostate has been overused by jw's leadership and members.
anyone who disagrees with anything the governing body does or says is assigned the label an apostate.
Hello this post features individual responses:
First I want to say that I am sending Simon a message shortly because the links in my post are linking back to this website instead of linking to the intended sites. I going to ask him to please assist me with that error because it is the first of my posts to encounter this problem.
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Hi Sparrowdown:
I respect your point of view. I especially like that you view your decision as your free will, your awakening, your consciousness, you choices, your responsibility. It's a beautiful state of mind because everything begins and ends with our accountability. When our individuality is taken away we are no longer piloting our journey.
I do not like/subscribe to the term "apostate" because in the witness community it is used as a weapon to silence critical thinking, rather than a statement about a person's decision to relinquish a religious or political, belief of principal.
For example, If you are a loving mother or father and your child was molested/violated/betrayed by the spiritual brother who sat next to you, prayed with you, ate with you, and gained your trust knowing he had violated your child, are you ever going to view your environment the same?
If you speak out and inform other parents whose children are at risk, even after the elders warn you not to, and even after they have officially informed you that you are going against the standards outlined by the "faithful and discreet slave" is that apostasy?
Fellow Jehovah witnesses are labeling grieving parents and their victimized children because the parents are not in group-think mode, they are using the thinking ability Jehovah gave them.
Here is my personal principle: God gave me free will and anything, person, or community that tries to censor my free will is challenging his gift to me and my right to have it. Resistance is not futile; individuality is a necessity.
In "witness speak" that's apostate behavior because you are going against a principle outlined by persons who have declared themselves God's representatives but are neither faithful or discreet in their handling of victims. Instead, they are faithful and discreet in their handling of predators and bad people who smile in your face while they implement your agony.
In summary: They cannot ignore God's standards and at the sametime declare themselves his representatives, that's hypocrisy.
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Hi Karios:
You wrote: "Isn't it funny that once awake, the 'Awake!' magazine title becomes an ironic joke.
Truth in plain site."
It's amazing how you captured that in once sentence.
You are correct. Have you ever noticed that companies with defective products do the samething? Their commercials offer the very thing they are known for not doing.
Fellow witnesses do not want to read anything other than JW's magazines. And so the literature serves its purpose. I never did that. I read what I wanted to read. To be honest, Karios, I never fit into the witness mentality. It is suffocating. I love learning about Jehovah. I love him so much that I have tried to be tolerant. To sit across from someone who only wants to talk about the magazines, field service, or a talk, is excruciating. I love helping people, I reached out to women in need. I did things to help them. I wanted to talk about ways to help people, and I could not find one person in the Kingdom Hall who wanted to do that even though that's what Jesus did, he preached and he helped persons in distress. It wasn't that some didn't think it was worthy and "sweet", it is that it just wasn't "normal" for witnesses, so it had to be described as "sweet". And it wasn't something you did for "worldly" people. And it was not "in harmony with what the "faithful and discreet slave" instructed us to do. This is further proof that most witnesses are not awake.
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Hi OrphanCrow:
I would summize it this way: It is the value of one's experiences not the quantity.
I try to use my experiences to help me stand up and push forward. It's not easy because in addition to my neurological and somatic challenges, I also have chronic PTSD. But that too has helped me expand my compassion for others.
I guess on good days, I look for what the challenge has given me rather than what it is taking away. And to achieve that I am constantly trying to expand my good days.
It's very difficulty. But I am an avid doer and reader so I look for ways to stand, and I implement them. But I want you to know that nothing I have done is more exciting or empowering than when I am able to assist another person. It gives me great joy. This forum has given me so much and in doing so it has provided an opportunity for me to give back. This makes me very happy. Thank you so much for your kind words.
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Hi Slidin Fast:
Thank you. My goal was to have a deeper understanding and share what I learned. I am really happy that it is useful and empowering to you!!! So, as it turns out, we both had a positive neurobiological experience. LOL. This is a wonderful, caring community, and I am thrilled to have a slice of that comfort. Thank you for allowing me to share. And, thank you so much for your encouragement.
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Hi Robo bobo:
Love your name!!!
You wrote: "I asked my friend the other day how it is to still be a witness...she said she can't complain!"
I laughed so hard when I read this. You are so funny!!!
That supports #2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
Please don't deprive me of seeing your name again here. I love it.
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Hi stuckinarut2:
Thank you for visiting. I am a brand new, just four days here. I am happy the post was useful to you. Cheers.
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Hi Talesin:
So happy you visited and thank you for your comment. I am really glad it was helpful to you. Thank you much. Cheers.
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i had no idea that the resistance, governance, and duplicity i am experiencing as a jehovah witness is actually part of a bigger behavioral issue that permeates the entire jehovah witness culture.. i was troubled by the fact that many persons who have been crushed by the unfair practices of jw leadership described themselves as former members of the jw cult, and, or, apostates.
the latter bothered me to a greater degree because i felt the word apostate has been overused by jw's leadership and members.
anyone who disagrees with anything the governing body does or says is assigned the label an apostate.
Greetings:
I had no idea that the resistance, governance, and duplicity I am experiencing as a Jehovah Witness is actually part of a bigger behavioral issue that permeates the entire Jehovah Witness culture.
I was troubled by the fact that many persons who have been crushed by the unfair practices of JW leadership described themselves as former members of the JW cult, and, or, apostates. The latter bothered me to a greater degree because I felt the word apostate has been overused by JW's leadership and members. Anyone who disagrees with anything the governing body does or says is assigned the label an apostate. I was concerned that persons who have been already treated unfairly were accepting that label.
In terms of individuals who referred to the organization as a cult, I felt I needed more information to understand why they felt the term applied to the JW religion. The next step for me was to find a credible resource on cults and cult behavior. My first stop was the Federal Bureau of investigations, I figured if anyone would have a good, impartial, resource on cults it would be them.
I found an article in the FBI's Bulletin, September, 2001: Interacting with “Cults”A Policing Model, page 17. The entire issue can be downloaded here: https://leb.fbi.gov/2000-pdfs/leb-september-2000
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Below I will highlight some of the key features that were helpful:
In sociological terms, a "cult" may be defined as a movement that is foreign to the culture in which it lives.(2) Thus, Americans would define a "cult" as a group, generally with a religious foundation, whose beliefs and practices are unfamiliar to the majority of U.S. citizens.
Defining a group as a "cult" generally has much more to do with the way society perceives the group than it does with the characteristics indigenous to the group itself.
Most scholars of religion avoid the word "cult" altogether because it carries with it a set of negative connotations: "cult" leaders are con artists; "cult" followers are brainwashed sheep; "cult" beliefs are bizarre or ludicrous; and "cult" movements are dangerous, tending toward suicide or violence.(4) These scholars instead refer to cults as "new religious movements" or "NRMs" because the majority of "cults" are young religious movements still in their first generations.
Brainwashing stands as the most common allegation leveled against NRMs. Even the existence of brainwashing, however, is debated fiercely among behavioral scientists.(9) Clearly, in cases where movements physically coerce inductees (e.g., depriving members of food or preventing them from freely leaving), definite grounds exist for law enforcement concern. In the majority of instances, though, NRMs try to attract members through the same methods used by missionaries in mainstream churches or secular movements. NRM members may approach strangers or distribute pamphlets in the hope of enticing the uninitiated to attend a series of classes or lectures about the group's belief system.
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Having gained a good understanding of the definition of a cult from reading the entire article. I focused on cult behaviors Tips and/or Red Flags. The Cult Education Institute's website offered useful information:
Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe http://culteducation.com/warningsigns.html
1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
9. The group/leader is always right.
10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
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Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader. http://culteducation.com/warningsigns.html
1. Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.
2. Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.
3. Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".
4. Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.
5. Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.
6. Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.
7. A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.
8. Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.
9. Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
10. Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.
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Ten signs of a safe group/leader. http://culteducation.com/warningsigns.html
1. A safe group/leader will answer your questions without becoming judgmental and punitive.
2. A safe group/leader will disclose information such as finances and often offer an independently audited financial statement regarding budget and expenses. Safe groups and leaders will tell you more than you want to know.
3. A safe group/leader is often democratic, sharing decision making and encouraging accountability and oversight.
4. A safe group/leader may have disgruntled former followers, but will not vilify, excommunicate and forbid others from associating with them.
5. A safe group/leader will not have a paper trail of overwhelmingly negative records, books, articles and statements about them.
6. A safe group/leader will encourage family communication, community interaction and existing friendships and not feel threatened.
7. A safe group/leader will recognize reasonable boundaries and limitations when dealing with others.
8. A safe group/leader will encourage critical thinking, individual autonomy and feelings of self-esteem.
9. A safe group/leader will admit failings and mistakes and accept constructive criticism and advice.
10. A safe group/leader will not be the only source of knowledge and learning excluding everyone else, but value dialogue and the free exchange of ideas
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Lastly, I found an extensive compendium on news stories and other content on Jehovah Witness on the Cult Education Institute at this link: http://www.culteducation.com/group/1267-jehovah-s-witnesses.html
It includes the following:
1. Historical background
2. Personal Stories
3. Jehovah Witnesses And The Law
4.Sexual Abuse 5. Witnesses And Blood
6. Jehovah Witnesses And Holdings
Thank you for the opportunity to contribute this post.
