Posts by EyesOpenHeartBroken

47

Are JWs "mind trained" to be habitual liars?

by nonjwspouse in

i don't mean overly obvious, or otherwise meaning to cause harm, but taught to lie for the purpose of avoidance.

this type of lying can be pervasive in areas of life that are not just to avoid discussions with people who have questions about the jw, etc.

my husband will lie/be deceitful about the silliest, simple things.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

Nonjwspouse- sorry you are going through this. Sounds like a very stressful situation.

In answer to your question, yes I have noticed many witnesses are very adept at telling lies, half truths, and twisting data. Primarily though, I have seen it in defense of the org and it's nonsensical doctrines, not as much for personal gain.

Although, I also think because JW is not truly a faith based system, but rather a prescribed outwardly observable program that members follow, it lends itself to leading a double life and minor "fibbing" to keep up the facade. The goal is looking good to outsiders and other congregants, not improving oneself inside and developing good and authentic relationships.

I was a born-in JW, and this always bothered me. I noticed the incongruous behavior and had a hard time trusting JWs or feeling comfortable with them. My father was an adult convert with an outgoing personality and a strong distaste for deceit. My mother was an adult convert with quieter nature and a desire to keep the peace at all cost, to including fibbing for the sake of peace, the org, and other people's feelings. She does not lie to shield herself from consequences or for personal gain, always for the gain or reputation of someone else. She is intensely loyal to many people who do not reciprocate or have an agenda she is unaware of, which causes her to get into a pickle sometimes and then more lying or manipulating ensues to smooth it over. It's frustrating! And so much drama! Getting some distance from her and her associates has been a help to me gaining some peace.

As a side of unsolicited advice, have you considered separate finances with your husband? Doesn't have to be 50/50, but add up monthly expenses (including percent of debt pay off) and decide what percentage each of you will pay toward monthly household. The next step is key--pay the bills together. He needs the stop seeing you as the gatekeeper to the money, and start seeing the reality of what comes in and what goes out. If you each have remaining balances in your separate accounts, that belongs to each of you use without answering to the other. And keep the business finances completely separate from personal--no depositing business checks and withdrawing cash for personal use. All business income needs to be cycled back through the business and then pay yourselves a salary, hourly wage, or percentage of the profit (based on what the business can support and remain sustainable). So at the least, your household would have 4 separated financial systems : 1) the business, 2) yours 3) his 4) the household. At first it may seem like a shell game, but if you stick to it you can get the finances back on track. It can also help with honest communication because you are both dealing in hard data.

Probably you already know all this, and I do not intend to be condesceding, but these steps really helped a close family member who was in a similar predicament as you.

I wish you all the best and hope you can come to a decision that helps yourself and your daughter, and possibly the marriage if you deem it salvageable. Hugs..

116

What is behind your choice of forum user name?

by stuckinarut2 in

jw
friends

just curious how we all think.. what prompted or influenced your choice of username for this forum?.

there are some really amazing names, and it would be great to hear the stories behind them.... mine was nothing fancy.

i just felt "stuck in a rut too" along with so many others.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

My username describes the cause and effect in my inner world upon fully realizing TTATT.

Unfortunately, three years later, I am still broken-hearted.

49

JW Wife not listening

by rathernotsay in

jw
friends

hey guys, looking for some advice with what to do with my jw wife that is simply ignoring my wishes/demands.

first a little back story, we have been married for 6 years and have 3 children together.

she is a jw, and i am not (nor do i have any religious beliefs).

EyesOpenHeartBroken

TALK to your wife BEFORE you do anything else. Do not bring the elders into your marriage. You may get what you want in the short term, by invoking JW headship rules on your wife, but I guarantee you undermine productive communication and trust with her.

You need re-affirm your love and care for her. Ask her what she needs. Ask her what she wants. Then tell her what you need. Tell her what you want. (And I'm not talking about "don't touch my man cave stuff" or I bought you a new mattress in exchange for keeping kids out of bed") Dig deep and lay out your heart for her...Examples: "I want to spend more time as a family with you and the kids", "I need us to spend more time with my friends and relatives", "I miss you when you are away", "I want and need to spend more intimate time with you", "I want to see a marriage counselor to help us get closer and communicate better." If she loves you, hearing that you love her and want to be with her with let her know you have forgiven her cheating and would like to move forward. It's all about time ...you have to make time for each other and for those kids. Make sure you see her as a woman and a valuable partner, not a nanny and housekeeper. I would not approach the pioneer thing, just build your marriage and she will crave time with you, which will exclude time spent in other activities.

P.S. About the man cave...if you are spending your free time in there playing video games and what not, instead of time with wife and kiddos, then of course she'll choose JW activities over home.

26

Last of the big conventions?

by NikL in

jw
friends

had lunch with some friends during today's waste of time convention.

they spoke of the rumor floating around that the jws will move away from these big regional conventions and have them at assembly halls and tie them in to kingdom halls.. they seemed to believe it was a pretty reliable source.. i think it would be too good to be true but who knows?.

anyone else heard this rumor?.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

Nik, it is actually the reverse of what you said. Congregation members are expected to go to assigned regional convention. Only those properly assessed by the BOE as infirm are invited to watch the vids at the KH instead of attending the larger venue. Of course, BOEs vary in their application of the WT rule, so some congregations may do an open invitation, but this is not in accord with corporate policy.

25

Lots of newbies posting! Welcome one and all!

by freddo in

jw
friends

is there something going on in jaydub land that has brought this on?

hope so!.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

Wow Phizzy! That is interesting, hope the trend makes it across the Pond...the American JWs don't seem as savvy ...yet 😉

26

Disfellowshipped Brother Gives Public Talk in Kingdom Hall

by The Searcher in

jw
friends

absolutely beautiful!.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vbmfx4isku.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

As a person who always paid attention and listened to what was being said, I recall hearing a number of talks that struck me immediately as not very "JW-ish" but very "Christian-ish". Even when I was fully in, these were always the best--probably because they created less cognitive dissonance than talks that featured the Old Testament. In the liberal area I grew up in, I doubt this talk would have been shut down --maybe a few raised eyebrows or "counsel" afterward for the brother to stick closer to the outline.

Unfortunately, when awake or more liberal JW elders do this, I think it just pulls doubters back into the ranks. If you want to wake people up, be a by-the-book, Old Testament lovin', WT rule quoting and enforcing elder. Who do you think wakes more people: Anthony Morris III on a rant or Mark Sanderson delivering a kind and balanced talk on brotherly love?

Just a thought....I know I would have woken a lot sooner if I hadn't been raised by loving and liberal JWs and grown up surrounded by liberal JWs. I woke as an adult when we moved to another area and the congregation was loaded with controlling, judgmental, meddling by-the-book elders and elderettes....and then the tight pants and colored socks talk...that was it for me.

15

Is it possible that someone who gives really gushing comments might still be awake?

by Isambard Crater in

jw
friends

of the 50% of congregants who regularly participate, many of them give gushing answers about how appreciative they are, how wonderful jw.org is and so on, which makes me think nobody in my congregation is awake.

but maybe it's possible for someone who comes across as super spiritual to be awake?

i can't see how, though, as surely it's emotionally draining to fake it like that?

EyesOpenHeartBroken

Who knows? If a person was awake and wanting to stay "under cover", then I suppose that's how to do it.

i know a fair amount of these gushing types, and it seems to me that it is more of a one-up-manship contest. Who can say the most gushy things about the GB, jw.org, the convention, meetings, etc. ? The gushing I have seen is always over something organizational--man made! I rarely hear gushing about Jehovah or Jesus.

25

Are There Many JWs That Have Actually Left?

by minimus in

jw
friends

it seems that most people who have been witnesses that i've known in the last 20 years are still jws.

they may not be as zealous as before but they still remain as jehovah's witnesses.

.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

Hi Notalone,

I hope that the scenarios you have posted become more the trend. Seeing whole multigenerational JW families leave WT, could wake up a lot of the more reasonable ones.

Unfortunately, many of the born ins I see leave the WT seem to have never really believed in it from the start. Or they have "fallen into sin". Or they fade so quietly that it makes no impact.

33

What are some things JWs re-name to make themselves different than Christians?

by NikL in

jw
friends

jws re-name things so they seem like they are different than other religions.

(of course we know they are different but that's another story).

i was just thinking about those things where they are like most everyone else in christendom but the re-name it to seem different.. for example god forbid they have a church, it's a "kingdom hall".. they don't have pastors and deacons they have "elders" and "ministerial servants".. they don't have tithing but they will have family heads fill out a paper saying how much they can contribute on a monthly basis (not sure if there is a name for that...unless it's tithing.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

"Speaking the pure language" = using all the above mentioned WT engineered words fluently and fluidly

25

Are There Many JWs That Have Actually Left?

by minimus in

jw
friends

it seems that most people who have been witnesses that i've known in the last 20 years are still jws.

they may not be as zealous as before but they still remain as jehovah's witnesses.

.

EyesOpenHeartBroken

This is anecdotal of course, but my observation of born-in JWs is about a 1/3 retention rate. I grew up in a fairly large western U.S. city with a lot congregations. Within my generation X in that city, at least 3/4 are faded or df'd. Most have easily maintained relationships with still in family. Most of the congs in that city only had about 50% of their publishers living in their territory boundaries--so many people just attended where they wanted (even elders). So fading was pretty easily done and keeping track of of who was actually "in" was pretty loose.

Conversely, my husband grew up in a small Midwest town surrounded by rural farmland. Only one congregation within a radius of one hour drive. Very little movement in the area. Entire congregation are born ins. 3-4 generations in each family in the same congregation, so less people leave. Most are related to each other by blood or marriage, so the congregation and their family are kind of one in the same. And those who get df'd seem to return for reinstatement, probably because they are more anchored to the religion. Also, everybody knows everybody's business, so there isn't really the option of discreetly associating with faded or df'd family. Who knows how many are mentally out though.

Now we are in a different area than either of us grew up in, but it's a lot closer in JW practice to the area my husband grew up in. I have to say it has been both suffocating and eye-opening. I think it hastened my awakening to the TTATT. Growing up in a looser, more liberal JW world kept me loyal and believing WT was a reasonable religion.

Also, anecdotally, Generation X born in men in my area are not "reaching out". Positions are mostly held by baby boomers and old timers, with a few uber young men who still live at home. The family men keep responsibilities in cong minimal to none.