Posts by Spiral

21

The physical effects of Cognitive Dissonance

by stuckinarut2 in

most of us here have gone through, or are going through the various stages "cognitive dissonance".. this is a term used to describe a situation where our minds, and hearts just know that something is "not quite right", and therefore we find ourselves in a muddle trying to reconcile the things we know with the things we are hearing or being told.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/cognitive_dissonance.

so just wondering, how many of you found yourselves (or still find yourselves) becoming phyiscally ill in some way during the time of fading?.

i know that when i look back, for several years even before i was awake to the many issues and facts about the society, i would feel ill at assemblies or conventions.

Spiral

I was soooooo happy to quit going to meetings I felt great! BUT - funny you should ask...... for quite awhile before waking up I was having problems (stress, headaches, etc.) at the assemblies - I just couldn't stand the "crowd". (I hear this particular complaint a lot from my JW friends still in.) I didn't make the connection until I totally quit going, it was just so wonderful not to have to sit all day and listen to that SH*&^!!

AND - since I am in a position to see lately, I know a couple of people who are showing the classic physical signs of CD (physical stress, depression, migraines). You just WANT to say something, but I know I don't dare. Just looking forward to welcoming them on the other side, once they finally quit.

38

What Were Your Elders Real World Jobs?

by pale.emperor in

we all know that education is severely demonized in this religion.

and that the elders are appointed based on how many meetings they attend, hours they put in on the ministry and general attitude to other elders (as apposed to, you know, actual theological training and counseling) - so my question is, what were your elders occupations outside the kingdom hall?.

in my old congregation our elders consisted of:.

Spiral

Several building contractors and/or carpenters. Two retired after jobs turned out poorly and there were legal issues. (It's a smaller town so everyone knows.)

Two owners of janitorial business. Window washing included.

One retired on disability.

One worked for the gas utililty all his life.

One machinist or welder (?)

One successful businessman (came in to the "truth" later after business was established)

Used to be, when I was a kid (60s) the elders all had "better" jobs because, in those times, you didn't have to be college educated to do well, or at least be comfortable.

Now, I see the next gen is struggling to get by. Their wives do a fair bit of cleaning jobs to help out. Two MSs who do window washing and janitorial work.

The lack of education really has hurt them.

8

Watchtower Study Article 23/10/16 from August edition

by BluesBrother in

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-august-2016/do-you-see-the-need-to-train-others/.

much of the article is the usual thoughtless mush that we have come to expect these days.

the rank and file bros. are urged to reach out to train the new ones... .

Spiral

BluesBrother, you are SO correct to call the studies these days "thoughtless mush". I think a lot of the problem the org is having these days is that people are just plain BORED out of their MINDS at the meetings and with freading the literature. It just doesn't engage any more, and people seem to be just going through the motions because of family.

16

tomorrowsworld.org - is this what the watchower is becoming?

by nowwhat? in

namely an e-religion with minimal congregations?

notice the very similar subject matters.

Spiral

Took a quick look at the website and it sure does look familiar. This makes me think about how the JWs think they are special because of all the printing and book distribution they've done in the past century. Now there can be competition from other, possibly newer groups because of the internet and the actual numbers of adherents may not matter as much. I noticed duplicate names displayed on the pins of congregations (in my state there seems to be only one minister even though there are two congregations shown). It might be a struggle for the JWs to stay "unique" and "relevant" (in their view) to the public.

Good thing they have their real estate business to fall back on.

20

Do JW's ever really grow up ?

by Phizzy in

i ask the above because of my personal experience.

as a born-in i was naive, socially inept and had never really thought deeply about anything.. i was also unable to accept arguments based upon reason and facts.. just like a child.. it was only after freeing myself from the mind-control of the jw cult that i educated myself and matured as a person to being (almost) an adult.. jw's attitudes and their inability to debate in any meaningful way, (they could start by actually listening),means they have not grown up..

Spiral

Phizzy, you are asking a question that I've had occasion to think about lately. Some JWs are "mature" in JW speak but for the most part, they do tend to be backwards socially. I think this could apply to a lot of religious groups, if they try to keep themselves "separate" from the world. Just an observation that seems true for my location.

18

Christians made me stop believing in the Bible

by jws in

i'm agnostic.

there could be a god, but i don't believe it's the god described in the bible.i grew up a jw believing in the bible.

after i left, i didn't want religion but was determined to be a christian on my own.. but things started to unravel.

Spiral

Yes! I have to say that living WITHOUT the bible is no doubt a plus. For various reasons that people and scientists speculate about, people love the bible like an idol, or a good luck charm. Doesn't matter what it really says.

18

Christians made me stop believing in the Bible

by jws in

i'm agnostic.

there could be a god, but i don't believe it's the god described in the bible.i grew up a jw believing in the bible.

after i left, i didn't want religion but was determined to be a christian on my own.. but things started to unravel.

Spiral

"Heaven: Growing up as a JW, I had issues with many things not only within the JW religion, but other religions too and the Bible itself. Theodicy was a big one and the misogyny. I was born with a logical mind. So much didn't add up for me including a lot of things having to do with math (eg: JWs claimed to be preaching to all the inhabited Earth. This is false. The math just doesn't add up)."

@Heaven: I used to wonder the same thing as a kid! Still do, if you think about it, the whole preaching to the entire earth is really just chasing your tail (mathmatically) because the longer you wait for "the end" the more people there are to preach too. You could never catch up.

@JWS: I so relate to all of what you are saying. I have gone through the same thought process and now I am an athiest. I am reading (very carefully) the book I mentioned in my previous post (The God Delusion). Wow! All those doubts we all had have a real logical basis. Once you're not willing to believe what other people (who just want to control you) believe, it's a weight off your back. At least, that's how I feel about it.

18

Christians made me stop believing in the Bible

by jws in

i'm agnostic.

there could be a god, but i don't believe it's the god described in the bible.i grew up a jw believing in the bible.

after i left, i didn't want religion but was determined to be a christian on my own.. but things started to unravel.

Spiral

Here's an excellent read: The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. He lays all of these arguments out (along with so many more) in such a way you can't understand why anyone would believe it - but then he explains theories about why they do. Fascinating!

22

Coming to a Kingdom Hall near you

by FatFreek 2005 in

putting it simply, kingdom halls are no longer the property of a local group of the folks that paid for and constructed it.

the lender, the watchtower society, now says that once a mortgage is satisfied, that congregation must then declare a resolution which says it will continue to make payments, usually equal to the amount they were paying on the mortgage.

and they must do so indefinitely.

Spiral

William Penwell

can you imagine---- dubs who may have donated for years towards building a kingdumb hall----and understandably feeling a close bond with it-----only to have the ownership taken by the watchtower-------whilst still having to donate the same amount!

I know a lot of them that would go along with this without question. The WT would spin it that the money is needed to go where the need is greater and most of the rank and file dubs would go along with it.

I know the WT does not tithe but they put a heavy guilt trip on to the members to contribute as much as they can to the KIngdum work. My parents would give a fair amount from the pension money to the Kingdum work.

What I am seeing locally is so sad..... the JWs here are so uneducated (sorry, but that's the only way I can describe it, and we all know why that is) that they really can't understand what this all means. Most of the congregation is pretty poor but they still give because they think it is for the "worldwide work" as in good for everyone. If you don't understand how the real estate industry works you can't see what's right in front of you.

I think this is an undercover "tithe" on a group basis. It's brilliant, really. Meanwhile, they keep them so busy with their "time tithe" that they don't have time to contemplate the meaning of what's in front of them.

15

Is this true

by pepperheart in

hi ive heard a romour that any jws that want a printed copy of the new song book to use at the kh will have to order one otherwise they will not get one.ithink they are trying to make people use tablets to view the song book.

as the new songbook is only 154 pages is this yet another money saving event in the borg .

Spiral

The tablet thing is just ridiculous. Around 2000 I remember they were still preaching the internet was baaaaaad and my mother and her fellow senior sisters were quite righteous because they knew nothing of the internet or about computers.

Now, the seniors have been thrown under the bus, electronically, BIG TIME.

When I found out about it I went and bought my mother an ipad - not cheap, yes, but it's what I have and that seems fair. We took it to the KH because I wanted to make a statement. (And yes, it was noticed by the "special ones" at the hall, lol)

My mother had been complaining that people at the hall had literature and "things" she didn't have and she felt left out. I hadn't been in about 10 years so I had no idea. But I was STEAMING MAD that they would do this to the elderly, everyone else so righteous and she, after all those years of faithful service, didn't even have "what she needed for meeting" and couldn't figure out how to get it. Now, when we go (ugh) we take the ipad just to make a point, but I print the WT for her as well.

At home she listens to music (oldies, no "kingdom" music) and plays solitaire and word search on the tablet. She enjoys it (limited use, yes, but she has fun) and she feels more included.

Sheesh!