Posts by Spiral

15

God's Rule Book ....The org is setting the scene....

by tor1500 in

jw
friends

i went to my midweek meeting this week.

very interesting....couple of things i noticed in the god's rule book, this week finishing up "the kingdom is born in heaven".

there was a footnote that read:for many years the watch tower was intended mainly for members of the little flock for their personal edification.

Spiral

sir82: Well over 95% of JWs don't give a crap what the meeting is about. Everything - literally 100% - is forgotten on the ride home.

For the most part, the only people who care about the idiocy of WT doctrine are the apostates who pick it apart.

I have to agree with this statement. It seems to me that most JWs don't know or care what doctrine really is. Too hard to figure out, and they don't care anyway because doctrine (these days) is not the reason they are JWs. The apostates know far more about the religion than the publishers do.

30

so let me get this straight.. the borg moves into their new corporate country club....

by nowwhat? in

with their luxurious lakeside condos.

takes all the congregations funds promising new kingdom halls.

but instead starts selling off kingdom halls ..then makes faithful old brothers and sisters drive 20-30 miles to another one, and .kicks out half the bethelites for only only tech savy college educated ones.can barely afford to send out printed publications anymore.

Spiral

Nowwhat?, I have wondered the same thing! Everyone here is pretty poor but several have scraped up enough to go see the glory of Bethel and Warwick, and yet they NEVER think about this. Or that while they'll be living on social security only, eating cheap food and driving a junk car, the big shots in Warwick are livin' it up.

But, as the saying goes, no one can take advantage of you without your permission.....

21

The physical effects of Cognitive Dissonance

by stuckinarut2 in

most of us here have gone through, or are going through the various stages "cognitive dissonance".. this is a term used to describe a situation where our minds, and hearts just know that something is "not quite right", and therefore we find ourselves in a muddle trying to reconcile the things we know with the things we are hearing or being told.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/cognitive_dissonance.

so just wondering, how many of you found yourselves (or still find yourselves) becoming phyiscally ill in some way during the time of fading?.

i know that when i look back, for several years even before i was awake to the many issues and facts about the society, i would feel ill at assemblies or conventions.

Spiral

I was soooooo happy to quit going to meetings I felt great! BUT - funny you should ask...... for quite awhile before waking up I was having problems (stress, headaches, etc.) at the assemblies - I just couldn't stand the "crowd". (I hear this particular complaint a lot from my JW friends still in.) I didn't make the connection until I totally quit going, it was just so wonderful not to have to sit all day and listen to that SH*&^!!

AND - since I am in a position to see lately, I know a couple of people who are showing the classic physical signs of CD (physical stress, depression, migraines). You just WANT to say something, but I know I don't dare. Just looking forward to welcoming them on the other side, once they finally quit.

38

What Were Your Elders Real World Jobs?

by pale.emperor in

we all know that education is severely demonized in this religion.

and that the elders are appointed based on how many meetings they attend, hours they put in on the ministry and general attitude to other elders (as apposed to, you know, actual theological training and counseling) - so my question is, what were your elders occupations outside the kingdom hall?.

in my old congregation our elders consisted of:.

Spiral

Several building contractors and/or carpenters. Two retired after jobs turned out poorly and there were legal issues. (It's a smaller town so everyone knows.)

Two owners of janitorial business. Window washing included.

One retired on disability.

One worked for the gas utililty all his life.

One machinist or welder (?)

One successful businessman (came in to the "truth" later after business was established)

Used to be, when I was a kid (60s) the elders all had "better" jobs because, in those times, you didn't have to be college educated to do well, or at least be comfortable.

Now, I see the next gen is struggling to get by. Their wives do a fair bit of cleaning jobs to help out. Two MSs who do window washing and janitorial work.

The lack of education really has hurt them.

8

Watchtower Study Article 23/10/16 from August edition

by BluesBrother in

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-august-2016/do-you-see-the-need-to-train-others/.

much of the article is the usual thoughtless mush that we have come to expect these days.

the rank and file bros. are urged to reach out to train the new ones... .

Spiral

BluesBrother, you are SO correct to call the studies these days "thoughtless mush". I think a lot of the problem the org is having these days is that people are just plain BORED out of their MINDS at the meetings and with freading the literature. It just doesn't engage any more, and people seem to be just going through the motions because of family.

16

tomorrowsworld.org - is this what the watchower is becoming?

by nowwhat? in

namely an e-religion with minimal congregations?

notice the very similar subject matters.

Spiral

Took a quick look at the website and it sure does look familiar. This makes me think about how the JWs think they are special because of all the printing and book distribution they've done in the past century. Now there can be competition from other, possibly newer groups because of the internet and the actual numbers of adherents may not matter as much. I noticed duplicate names displayed on the pins of congregations (in my state there seems to be only one minister even though there are two congregations shown). It might be a struggle for the JWs to stay "unique" and "relevant" (in their view) to the public.

Good thing they have their real estate business to fall back on.

20

Do JW's ever really grow up ?

by Phizzy in

i ask the above because of my personal experience.

as a born-in i was naive, socially inept and had never really thought deeply about anything.. i was also unable to accept arguments based upon reason and facts.. just like a child.. it was only after freeing myself from the mind-control of the jw cult that i educated myself and matured as a person to being (almost) an adult.. jw's attitudes and their inability to debate in any meaningful way, (they could start by actually listening),means they have not grown up..

Spiral

Phizzy, you are asking a question that I've had occasion to think about lately. Some JWs are "mature" in JW speak but for the most part, they do tend to be backwards socially. I think this could apply to a lot of religious groups, if they try to keep themselves "separate" from the world. Just an observation that seems true for my location.

18

Christians made me stop believing in the Bible

by jws in

i'm agnostic.

there could be a god, but i don't believe it's the god described in the bible.i grew up a jw believing in the bible.

after i left, i didn't want religion but was determined to be a christian on my own.. but things started to unravel.

Spiral

Yes! I have to say that living WITHOUT the bible is no doubt a plus. For various reasons that people and scientists speculate about, people love the bible like an idol, or a good luck charm. Doesn't matter what it really says.

18

Christians made me stop believing in the Bible

by jws in

i'm agnostic.

there could be a god, but i don't believe it's the god described in the bible.i grew up a jw believing in the bible.

after i left, i didn't want religion but was determined to be a christian on my own.. but things started to unravel.

Spiral

"Heaven: Growing up as a JW, I had issues with many things not only within the JW religion, but other religions too and the Bible itself. Theodicy was a big one and the misogyny. I was born with a logical mind. So much didn't add up for me including a lot of things having to do with math (eg: JWs claimed to be preaching to all the inhabited Earth. This is false. The math just doesn't add up)."

@Heaven: I used to wonder the same thing as a kid! Still do, if you think about it, the whole preaching to the entire earth is really just chasing your tail (mathmatically) because the longer you wait for "the end" the more people there are to preach too. You could never catch up.

@JWS: I so relate to all of what you are saying. I have gone through the same thought process and now I am an athiest. I am reading (very carefully) the book I mentioned in my previous post (The God Delusion). Wow! All those doubts we all had have a real logical basis. Once you're not willing to believe what other people (who just want to control you) believe, it's a weight off your back. At least, that's how I feel about it.

18

Christians made me stop believing in the Bible

by jws in

i'm agnostic.

there could be a god, but i don't believe it's the god described in the bible.i grew up a jw believing in the bible.

after i left, i didn't want religion but was determined to be a christian on my own.. but things started to unravel.

Spiral

Here's an excellent read: The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. He lays all of these arguments out (along with so many more) in such a way you can't understand why anyone would believe it - but then he explains theories about why they do. Fascinating!