several years ago, i was introduced to a "wonderful" company called fortune hi tech marketing by a brother and his wife.
they had been introduced by a former sheriff who claims he had researched the company and found no leins or judgments, and that former sheriff had been brought in by a pastor.
you can read what happened with fhtm on wikipedia if you so desire.. this whole new idea of multilevel marketing had my brain reeling, though, and soon enough, i actually signed up with none other than prepaid legal.
Oh, over the years I can remember so many witnesses involved in so many "be your own boss" schemes, from vitamins, meleleuca, cooking utensils, makeup, jewelry, cleaning products, you name it.
I think most just needed to make more money and were naive. Sad, because more money was spent than earned.
Poverty is not fun, spiritual, or "keeping it simple". Having to deal with $$$ shortage every month is hardly a simple carefree life!
having seen many, many people leave the org over the years, i have to say that, when it comes to married couples, it's almost always the man who makes the first move to leave.
conversely, when it comes to being converted into the witnesses, more often than not it's the wife who joins up first.
although that wasn't the case with my own parents, my father became converted and my mother followed very reluctantly..
I might be the exception because I left first. But, a big part of me leaving was just getting tired of having to bow to elders, some of whom (in my area) could hardly read well enough to do a bible reading, but thought they knew everything about me and what I should be doing. And, why believe the Bible (an ancient, clearly flawed book of writings) and give that power over your daily life?
I've always been an independent thinker, though, and truthfully, was never very popular in JW land.
Mr. Spiral is 4th gen JW so it was harder for him, but as it turns out once I said enough he was fine with it (and promptly grew a beard, lol). We've never been happier and the relatives really can't stand it.
I do think a lot of women feel powerless and need structure and tribe so they look for a religion. There are a lot of people (not just women, but perhaps more women because of social constraints) who need to feel included in something "bigger" than they are as a "mere" human, to guide them through life's "mysteries". Lately I have been really surprised and puzzled to observe how women will play along when, obviously, they are smarter than the particular men involved. (You'll have to take my word for that part.)
Hopefully, as society evolves women will continue to gain more power. I hope for that for my grandchildren!
i went to my midweek meeting this week.
very interesting....couple of things i noticed in the god's rule book, this week finishing up "the kingdom is born in heaven".
there was a footnote that read:for many years the watch tower was intended mainly for members of the little flock for their personal edification.
sir82: Well over 95% of JWs don't give a crap what the meeting is about. Everything - literally 100% - is forgotten on the ride home.
For the most part, the only people who care about the idiocy of WT doctrine are the apostates who pick it apart.
I have to agree with this statement. It seems to me that most JWs don't know or care what doctrine really is. Too hard to figure out, and they don't care anyway because doctrine (these days) is not the reason they are JWs. The apostates know far more about the religion than the publishers do.
with their luxurious lakeside condos.
takes all the congregations funds promising new kingdom halls.
but instead starts selling off kingdom halls ..then makes faithful old brothers and sisters drive 20-30 miles to another one, and .kicks out half the bethelites for only only tech savy college educated ones.can barely afford to send out printed publications anymore.
Nowwhat?, I have wondered the same thing! Everyone here is pretty poor but several have scraped up enough to go see the glory of Bethel and Warwick, and yet they NEVER think about this. Or that while they'll be living on social security only, eating cheap food and driving a junk car, the big shots in Warwick are livin' it up.
But, as the saying goes, no one can take advantage of you without your permission.....
most of us here have gone through, or are going through the various stages "cognitive dissonance".. this is a term used to describe a situation where our minds, and hearts just know that something is "not quite right", and therefore we find ourselves in a muddle trying to reconcile the things we know with the things we are hearing or being told.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/cognitive_dissonance.
so just wondering, how many of you found yourselves (or still find yourselves) becoming phyiscally ill in some way during the time of fading?.
i know that when i look back, for several years even before i was awake to the many issues and facts about the society, i would feel ill at assemblies or conventions.
I was soooooo happy to quit going to meetings I felt great! BUT - funny you should ask...... for quite awhile before waking up I was having problems (stress, headaches, etc.) at the assemblies - I just couldn't stand the "crowd". (I hear this particular complaint a lot from my JW friends still in.) I didn't make the connection until I totally quit going, it was just so wonderful not to have to sit all day and listen to that SH*&^!!
AND - since I am in a position to see lately, I know a couple of people who are showing the classic physical signs of CD (physical stress, depression, migraines). You just WANT to say something, but I know I don't dare. Just looking forward to welcoming them on the other side, once they finally quit.
we all know that education is severely demonized in this religion.
and that the elders are appointed based on how many meetings they attend, hours they put in on the ministry and general attitude to other elders (as apposed to, you know, actual theological training and counseling) - so my question is, what were your elders occupations outside the kingdom hall?.
in my old congregation our elders consisted of:.
Several building contractors and/or carpenters. Two retired after jobs turned out poorly and there were legal issues. (It's a smaller town so everyone knows.)
Two owners of janitorial business. Window washing included.
One retired on disability.
One worked for the gas utililty all his life.
One machinist or welder (?)
One successful businessman (came in to the "truth" later after business was established)
Used to be, when I was a kid (60s) the elders all had "better" jobs because, in those times, you didn't have to be college educated to do well, or at least be comfortable.
Now, I see the next gen is struggling to get by. Their wives do a fair bit of cleaning jobs to help out. Two MSs who do window washing and janitorial work.
The lack of education really has hurt them.
https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-august-2016/do-you-see-the-need-to-train-others/.
much of the article is the usual thoughtless mush that we have come to expect these days.
the rank and file bros. are urged to reach out to train the new ones... .
BluesBrother, you are SO correct to call the studies these days "thoughtless mush". I think a lot of the problem the org is having these days is that people are just plain BORED out of their MINDS at the meetings and with freading the literature. It just doesn't engage any more, and people seem to be just going through the motions because of family.
namely an e-religion with minimal congregations?
notice the very similar subject matters.
Took a quick look at the website and it sure does look familiar. This makes me think about how the JWs think they are special because of all the printing and book distribution they've done in the past century. Now there can be competition from other, possibly newer groups because of the internet and the actual numbers of adherents may not matter as much. I noticed duplicate names displayed on the pins of congregations (in my state there seems to be only one minister even though there are two congregations shown). It might be a struggle for the JWs to stay "unique" and "relevant" (in their view) to the public.
Good thing they have their real estate business to fall back on.
i ask the above because of my personal experience.
as a born-in i was naive, socially inept and had never really thought deeply about anything.. i was also unable to accept arguments based upon reason and facts.. just like a child.. it was only after freeing myself from the mind-control of the jw cult that i educated myself and matured as a person to being (almost) an adult.. jw's attitudes and their inability to debate in any meaningful way, (they could start by actually listening),means they have not grown up..
Phizzy, you are asking a question that I've had occasion to think about lately. Some JWs are "mature" in JW speak but for the most part, they do tend to be backwards socially. I think this could apply to a lot of religious groups, if they try to keep themselves "separate" from the world. Just an observation that seems true for my location.
i'm agnostic.
there could be a god, but i don't believe it's the god described in the bible.i grew up a jw believing in the bible.
after i left, i didn't want religion but was determined to be a christian on my own.. but things started to unravel.
Yes! I have to say that living WITHOUT the bible is no doubt a plus. For various reasons that people and scientists speculate about, people love the bible like an idol, or a good luck charm. Doesn't matter what it really says.
