Lucid, thankyou for your response. I am not rejecting the reasoning process or thinking. I am ,clumsily, trying to point out the relationship between thought and perception. If you will, I,m trying to introduce another factor into the reasoning process.... the factor of direct "knowing". For example, the Theory of Relativity was "felt" by Einstein. The rationale came later and the observations are still coming in. The practical side of direct knowing, is the unusually satisfying quality that it gives to life. What is this? Why is this perception missing? Direct knowing is a scientific fact, why is it not part of the equasion. The fact that it is left out of the picture has led to total reliance on thought and thought cannot resolve the problem of how to live here. We are suffering from a distortion of perception. When the mind sees directly there is no problem. What is the difference between you and a Moslem? The difference is in your thinking mind. Stop that process and you are one.
Siddhashunyata
JoinedPosts by Siddhashunyata
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Is Anyone a Pantheist ?
by LucidSky inis anyone a pantheist ?.
in my search for the meaning of life, it has been only a month or two since i've actually become agnostic.
my reason for the final rejection of christianity was that i could not believe a god of love, justice and wisdom would create a world that along with life/pleasure would also foster death/suffering for seemingly infinite numbers of innocent and not-so-innocent beings.
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Is Anyone a Pantheist ?
by LucidSky inis anyone a pantheist ?.
in my search for the meaning of life, it has been only a month or two since i've actually become agnostic.
my reason for the final rejection of christianity was that i could not believe a god of love, justice and wisdom would create a world that along with life/pleasure would also foster death/suffering for seemingly infinite numbers of innocent and not-so-innocent beings.
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Siddhashunyata
Lucid... an observation: There is no necessity to formulate anything. The process of "ideation" is the problem. It has given rise to the illusion that we know things. These ideas become symbols in our minds and we use them to "know" other things. This way of living has a certain unsatisfying quality and so, if we are aware of this unsatisfying feeling, we "seek". But using ideas to "find" is using the problem to solve the problem. It goes on and on and we are slaves to thought itself. Unless we recognize that "thinking" is a tool and a process of the brain we identify ourselves with the thoughts. We are not our thoughts and that becomes clear when thinking ceases. When the process of thinking stops, life has a different quality, objects have inherent meaning as though they in themselves are "language". This is very satisfying . It is truth. One gets the sense of having found something that was lost. It is not too much of a stretch to conclude that the dominance of the thought process is what is meant by the "tree of knowledge". The WTBS never pointed out the accessibility of life with this alternative quality because they are lost in thought while using it as a tool for power.
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Anointed Experience #1 - Discerning the Body
by Amazing in"thichi" asked in my previous post about some of the 'anointed' experiences i alluded to, especially those that i mentioned that were somewhat painful.
here is one such event that i have relayed before in shorter comments:.
i was an elder at the time, visiting in pennsylvania on business.
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Siddhashunyata
Your body is to be sacrificed.
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Is Anyone a Pantheist ?
by LucidSky inis anyone a pantheist ?.
in my search for the meaning of life, it has been only a month or two since i've actually become agnostic.
my reason for the final rejection of christianity was that i could not believe a god of love, justice and wisdom would create a world that along with life/pleasure would also foster death/suffering for seemingly infinite numbers of innocent and not-so-innocent beings.
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Siddhashunyata
Are you willing to consider that God is ,first of all,an idea? All ideas are limiting therefor you cannot know that which is limitles by forming ideas. The first step is to recognize that fact. The second step is to recognize that cognition through ideas is not the same as direct perception. This distinction is crucial! The "Way" is to see this distinction within your own mind. Ideas, ideas, ideas ...what happens when we stop forming ideas? The truth comes forward directly. Truth is not an idea or a set of ideas it is what is NOW! It is alive. It is Life. Life perceived directly without any conditioned ideas. This forum thrives on ideas but there is no recognition that ideas about God are like ideas about anything, limiting. Shall I give you an idea of the taste of honey? Its sweet. Now eat some honey. Is it more than sweet? How many ideas can give me that taste? Truth is like that, intricate, varied, whole wonderful. The difficulty is in catching the mind as it tosses concepts and judgements in the way of direct perception. The Way is to perceive this process within yourself. Read this again and watch the process. Now look at the things around you without the process.
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A dilemma regarding the 144,000
by Five Gospels insome of the recent posts regarding the "anointed" got me thinking about some of the characters that i have met, or have known about, professing membership among this elite class of people.. one particular character i know of, even today espousing some, shall we say, interesting viewpoints on matters, had an even more interesting past.
it seems that some years ago (c. 1970's) a typically subdued but otherwise ordinary christian meeting was being closed with a prayer at a small kingdom hall in the north eastern usa when it was suddenly disrupted by this individual (even then professing to be anointed) assaulting his wife at the rear of the hall!
he was pretty much disfellowshiped on the spot for his indiscretion.
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Siddhashunyata
True story. Back in the 70's I knew a sweet elderly sister that was present at the convention(1930's) when the WTBS announced that the Great Multitude was an Earthly Class . From that convention until her dying day she held a burning resentment because , as she put it, a brother had talked her out of being of the Heavenly Class. She felt she could have been of the "Annointed" if only she hadn"t been persuaded otherwise. To a psychologist the case is simple , to Jehovah"s Witnesses the case is an enigma. All "authority" rests on this concept of "Annointing". You will never understand yourself if you believe this about yourself or anyone else. "Salvation" cannot come through authority, real or imagined. It comes by "leaving self behind". Not easy because the self , itself, is making the inquiry. Thus , the truth destroys the very thing seeking salvation. In this way there is transformation. Because the process is so personal and intimate one can understand why "works" have no merit in themselves. Their value lies in how they impact the destruction of the inquiring self. But if that self is seeking to live eternally , if it seeks to gain a firmer, more secure "footing" through every form of religous devotion or "tidy" concept, if that is the extent of its inquiry then it will find comfort only under authority or by exercising authority over others. This is where the self goes if it is not destroyed and accepts delusion over truth. That is why the religous systems are characterized by authority and self-rightousness and that is why the membership cannot allow these institutions to be destroyed. These institutions are the last stop for all the "selves" seeking salvation without the death of the self. A very lucrative business.
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Appeal to NBC Dateline
by Amazing ini will be sending this letter/email to nbc dateline at: [email protected].
i am posting it in the event some of you decide to do something similar: you can also mail this to:.
nbc news - dateline.
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Siddhashunyata
Amazing...... The letter is superb as written. Respectful, insightful and persuasive.
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The "Tree" of WHAT?
by Farkel inthe account of adam and eve as a literal event is so full of logical contradictions that it is mind-boggling.
it only takes a minimum of scrutiny to discover that fact, too.. there is something god did not want adam and eve to know.
he didnt want them to know the difference between good and evil.
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Siddhashunyata
Good and Evil are concepts. When conceptualization ceases does not life have a different quality? See for yourself.
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Calvinist theology and JW beleifs
by bboyneko ini heard calvinist theology and jw beleifs are very similair, including aggresive door to door preaching, limited number go to heaven, exclusion of non-members and isolation, etc.
anyone fill me in more?
im sick and feel too blechy to research it myself.
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Siddhashunyata
Calvinists>>>>Puritans>>>>Congrgationalists>>>> + 2nd Adventism = W.T.B.&T.S. (See picture and model of exemplary young puritans in Rutherfords book "Children"). P.S. add to the above: turn of the century advent of psychology and advertising then steep 50 years in Victorian and post Victorian culture, garnish with the Industrial Revolution and serve.
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Can I Sue? Any Advice?
by D wiltshire ini was woundering what my chances are of suing either the elders or wt over this:.
i was df'd in another congregation not the one i went today for public meeting and wt study(what a joke those 2 meetings were).. anyway i sat directly in the front right in front of the speaker.
the reader of the wt was on my appeal committee(another joke).. as i was leaving after the final prayer the sister in back of me introduced her self and i started to talk to her after she aproached me first, right away the elder who was on the appeal committee stops the sister from talking to me by interupting our conversation and annouced to her in front of me that it was not proper for her to talk to me since i was disfellowshipped.. i then proceeded to leave out the back when as i'm leaving another brother holds out the right hand of fellowship and we proceed to share greetings at which time a different elder rudely interupts our conversation and tells the brother not to talk to me because i was df'd.. i think these elders may have violated my rights since i have never been a member of that congregtion and they by their words caused other to veiw me as evil with out proper cause.. any legal eagles can tell my options?.
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Siddhashunyata
You may have certain legal rights regarding the way the "disfellowshipping" was enforced. I don't know if anyone has challenged such actions as you experienced. Disfellowshipping is one thing, enforcement is another.
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To the older Poster's
by Patriot inand i mean older in the literal sense not time in h20 or jwd and with some serious time put in with the wt.. how do you feel?
how do you or did you face the facts of the wt and dismiss everything and everyone that you have believed in and has been your friend for so many years?.
how do you make up for lost time?
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Siddhashunyata
" Ah but I was so much older then; I'm younger than that now." Dylan ........ "When you understand one thing through and through, you understand everything." S. Suzuki The W.T. experience (30 of 60 years)closed the door on the false mind forever. Any serious seeker will agree that it was " grist for the mill ". We know that living in the "moment" is the key. When that is happening,when thought stops, there is no fear.