Posts by Recovery

10

Can the Watchtower Prove Their Core "Truths" to Be "True"???

by Anne Marie 1925 in

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romans 8: 38-39 nwt.

so can the watchtower prove any of their unorthodox core teachings to be true according to the word of god?

Recovery

Why don't you pick a topic and prove one of JW's core truths to be false instead of cut and paste, and then we can all see who's right and who's wrong.

144

Does God Command Christians To Go From Door To Door Preaching The Gospel?

by Bangalore in

jw
friends

does god command christians to go from door to door preaching the gospel?.

source:http://www.thercg.org/questions/p070.a.html.

based on a quick reading and misinterpretation of acts 20:20, many believe that the apostle paul preached the gospel of the kingdom from house to house, to those who were unconverted.

Recovery

This website commits a similar logical fallacy with Acts 28:30-31 to make it seem as if Paul wouldn't go house to house because he would be 'forcing his beliefs' on others. Notice Acts 28:16 "we entered into Rome, Paul was permitted to stay by himself with the soldier guarding him.." Paul is not just on vacation, sitting around on his romp, waiting for people to approach him. He is under Roman confinement and cannot leave the house. It is impossible for Paul to preach from house to house or in the synagogue or anywhere else since he is bound and confined. This example is no way proves that Paul did not preach from house to house, and the use of this scripture as an example is deceptive and misleading. Even in Acts 28 Paul is the one who called the principal men of the Jews to come to his house and he proceeds to preach to them. Look at Paul, 'forcing his beliefs' on others again huh?

We are supposed to believe the early disciples disobeyed Christ in Acts 5:42 by preaching from house to house according to this interpretation of Luke 10. But this is not what Jesus is saying at all. Notice verse 7 "So STAY IN THAT HOUSE, eating and drinking the things they provide, for the worker is worthy of his wages. DO NOT BE TRANSFERRING FROM HOUSE TO HOUSE." It is clear that Jesus is telling his disciples to be content with the provisions for lodging and food. Not to be bouncing from house to house, living with different people every day. Besides this would make no sense when we look at his earlier instructions

Matthew 10:11 "Into whatever city or village YOU enter, search out who in it is deserving, and stay there until YOU leave. 12 When YOU are entering into the house, greet the household; 13 and if the house is deserving, let the peace YOU wish it come upon it; but if it is not deserving, let the peace from YOU return upon YOU. 14 Wherever anyone does not take YOU in OR LISTEN TO YOUR WORDS, on going out of THAT HOUSE or that city shake the dust off YOUR feet.."

How are they going to search out who is deserving in the city or village? How are they going to talk to anybody about Christ and find somewhere to lodge? Looks like the disciples are out of luck. Jesus told them not to go house to house, to not try to force their beliefs on others. And how dare the disciples disobey Jesus in Acts 5:42 preaching from house to house.

144

Does God Command Christians To Go From Door To Door Preaching The Gospel?

by Bangalore in

jw
friends

does god command christians to go from door to door preaching the gospel?.

source:http://www.thercg.org/questions/p070.a.html.

based on a quick reading and misinterpretation of acts 20:20, many believe that the apostle paul preached the gospel of the kingdom from house to house, to those who were unconverted.

Recovery

The problem with Bangalore's/whatever website he cut and pasted from interpretation's of Acts, is that it completely ignores the verb tense and combines all the events that take place into one, to make it seem as if Paul is preaching from house to house to the older men of the congregation. An examination of what really happened will prove that this was not the case. In Acts 20:20 Paul is talking about the Ephesians. Ephesus was inside the district of Asia. So here is our sequence of events:

1. Paul arrives in the district of Asia (and of course goes to Ephesus).

2. He preaches in the temple about the Kingdom for three months.

3. After the Jews refuse to listen, he begins giving talks in the school auditorium (for two years) "so that ALL THOSE INHABITING the [district of] Asia HEARD THE WORD OF THE LORD, both Jews and Greeks." (Acts 19:10)

4. At the end of his three year stay in the district of Asia, Paul calls for the older men of the Ephesian congregation. It is in this context that it is said:

"When they got to him he said to them: “YOU well know how from the first day that I stepped into the [district of] Asia I was with you the whole time.." But there were no elders when Paul first arrived in the district of Asia, only newly converted disciples who he had just baptized in holy spirit. On his first day in Ephesus he is CONVERTING new disciples. That is why at the end of the two years "all those inhabiting the district of Asia" heard the word of the Lord, not JUST the Ephesian elders. Now, continuing "slaving for the Lord with the greatest lowliness of mind and tears and trials that befell me by the plots of the Jews; 20 while I did not hold back from telling YOU any of the things that were profitable nor from teaching YOU publicly and from house to house. 21 But I thoroughly bore witness both to Jews and to Greeks about repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus.." Despite all the opposition and plots of the Jews it does not stop Paul from preaching to both Jews and Greeks about repentance toward God. Now does it seem reasonable for this persecution to be an obstacle to preaching the good news (causing him to "hold back") when Paul is simply preaching in the homes of the elders?

Paul does not need to bear witness to Christian elders about repentance toward God and faith in Jesus Christ. When Paul arrives in Ephesus, there is no congregation, no elders, and he had to CONVERT 12 new disciples. A person must be really desperate to discredit JW's and the Bible to make such an absurd interpretation.

63

Powerful questions to DEBUNK the flood of Noah's day

by Black Man in

jw
friends

just like in another thread a saw, the best way to deal with my jws is not debating or arguing, but instead posing questions for them to answer or not answer.

i want to come up with specific questions relating to the 'global flood' that completely debunk it.

what say you, jw.net?.

Recovery

Leolaia do you have any other refutations regarding the Bible's accuracy (other subjects)?

117

My video recorded apostasy trial is now live

by RayPublisher in

part 3 (which is where the actual meeting begins) is finished.

it took my computer hours and hours to render and upload it!!

anyway, this is what i just posted on my youtube channel:.

Recovery

Wow, this is interesting.

3

What Is The True Source Of The Unnumbered Great Crowd?

by wannabe in

what is the true source of the unnumbered great crowd?.

does it make any sense, to believe that a great unnumbered crowd that no man could number, could come out of the great tribulation predicted by the son of god, jesus christ?

now, i myself, when it comes to mathematics, am certainly no rocket-scientist, but how intelligent do you have to be, to know that kind of number, could never possibly come out of a numbered population, of say, some, eight billion.

Recovery

39

For Recovery: A discussion about the Great Crowd and the Other Sheep

by Londo111 in

recovery,.

as requested, a discussion on the great crowd and the identity of the other sheep.. .

first question: where are the great crowd rendering sacred service day and night?.

Recovery

So basically Londo's argument comes to down to three points:

1. The Great Crowd are in the temple sanctuary

2. They cannot be in the courtyard, which is outside the sanctuary, since they are in the sanctuary

3. Those in the sanctuary perform priestly duties/services, and thus those who perform priestly duties must have a heavenly hope as 1 Peter 2:5 indicates.

This line of reasoning would be definitive and conclusive, except the word "naos" is not used exclusively for the sanctuary itself. It is a logical fallacy to assert that the use of "naos" in Revelation 7 conclusively signifies that this must be the temple sanctuary. As this shows (http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3485&t=NIV) naos is used over 40 times in the NT and it does not always exclusively signify the temple sanctuary.

An example of this is: 1 Corinthians 3:16 "Do YOU not know that YOU people are God’s temple (naos), and that the spirit of God dwells in YOU?"

Also we have Ephesians 2:20, 21 "20 and YOU have been built up upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, while Christ Jesus himself is the foundation cornerstone. 21 In union with him the whole building, being harmoniously joined together, is growing into a holy temple (naos) for Jehovah."

So the use of "naos" does not obligatorily place the great crowd in heaven or before a figurative "temple sanctuary". Now let's notice the latter part of verse 15 ..... "and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them." Note that Jehovah will spread his tent or his holy abide of habitation over them. According to Londo's interpretation, the great crowd are a heavenly class. How could God spread his tent over those who are already dwelling and living in his area of habitation, heaven?

Further proof that the "great crowd" is not in reference to a heavenly class, can be found in Revelation 21. Notice the similar wording between Revelation 7 and Revelation 21

15 That is why they are before the throne of God; and they are rendering him sacred service day and night in his temple; and the One seated on the throne will spread his tent over them. = "3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them."

16 They will hunger no more nor thirst anymore, neither will the sun beat down upon them nor any scorching heat, 17 because the Lamb, who is in the midst of the throne, will shepherd them, and will guide them to fountains of waters of life.And God will wipe out every tear from their eyes.” = And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.” Revelation 22:1 (continuing the vision says): "And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb.."

It is obvious that these are parallel accounts. Now this poses some problems for those who hold the view that the great crowd is a heavenly class.

Why does God have to spread his tent over those who are already in heaven? Why does the scripture say God will reside with them, when he is already residing with them as they are in heaven? And why do both visions mention the wiping away of tears and death and pain when these things do not occur in heaven? Why will God be with them, when he is already with those who are in heaven?

Finally, the parallel vision in Revelation 21 in verse 22 clears it all up for us: "And I did not see a temple in it (the holy city of New Jerusalem), for Jehovah God the Almighty is its temple, also the Lamb [is].." Yes, the word for temple here is a form of naos (literally “divine habitation (dwelling).” Gr., na·on). So when we examine the parallel vision, everything is cleared up for us.

So how do "the great crowd" render sacred service before the throne day and night and in the Temple? Notice Revelation 7:10 "And they keep on crying with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation [we owe] to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.” After surviving the great tribulation they are overjoyed because they have been saved by God and by the blood of the Lamb. They can render sacred service (worship, as you pointed out) in the Temple since Jehovah and Jesus are in their midst (dwelling among them, spreading his tent over them).

I believe this covers everything in post 1 quite thoroughly.

14

Recovery and Elephant

by tornapart in

jw
friends

would love to see them debating in a thread with each other.....

Recovery

Who?

11

I Couldn't Sleep Last Night.... All Jesus Had To Do Was Hand The Disciples The Scroll Of Daniel The Prophet

by BroMac in

.......all jesus had to do was hand the disciples the scroll of daniel the prophet.

3q's asked of jesus....when will these things be?

what of the conclusion of the system of things?.

Recovery

You are committing the logical fallacy of grouping several separate events into one, when that is not the case.

Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. . .

Notice that there is a distinction between 'that day and hour' and 'the days of Noah'. These are not the same event. Also, notice verse 44 'On this account YOU too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming." The day and hour (no one knows about) = the coming of Christ. That is what is said to have been not known by anyone. There is a difference between Christ's coming and his presence.

I don't see how this disprove JW's wrong in any way since The Gentile Times are related to Christ's presence, not his coming.

23

Devil's Advocate , A QUESTION FOR RECOVERY AND OTHERS.

by DATA-DOG in

i noticed recovery's post is on lock-down.

i have never seen that happen.

i want to play devils advocate and recovery can answer honestly.

Recovery

Who cares if you don't read my posts? Of course that's a convenient copout when your back is pushed against the wall and you have nothing conclusive or substantiated to add to the discussion (especially your outlandish claims about serial CO molestors). Put up or shut up.