Posts by Recovery

88

Jwfacts-- Why So Many Contradictions?

by Recovery in

i am well aware that many members of this board adhere to the view that the wt and/or the bible is contradictory.

the question is: if paul grundy is so enlightened as to 'the truth about the truth', why is he so contradictory?.

jwfacts to me (in a personal message): "much of the information at jwfacts.com is from the research of people far more gifted then me,and comes from jwn.

Recovery

This is not about Jehovah or the WT. This is about his inability to admit when he is wrong and how he cannot rightly call his website jwFACTS

88

Jwfacts-- Why So Many Contradictions?

by Recovery in

i am well aware that many members of this board adhere to the view that the wt and/or the bible is contradictory.

the question is: if paul grundy is so enlightened as to 'the truth about the truth', why is he so contradictory?.

jwfacts to me (in a personal message): "much of the information at jwfacts.com is from the research of people far more gifted then me,and comes from jwn.

I will answer all child abuse issues once my previous issues with jwfacts have been settled. So if you really want answers to your questions, I'd urge him to address my arguments and his contradictions.

12

Recovery - Why so much intellectual dishonesty?

by tootired2care in

recovery likes to point out little nit-picky technical with the jwfacts.com website.

recovery to me is aptly described in jesus illustration as the one who strains the gnat but gulps the camel.. why can't he acknowledge any of the responses and evidence presented to his questions in the threads that he's created?

furthermore why doesn't recovery use the same critical standard on the organization that has claimed to be selected by christ and is spirit directed?

Recovery

I can find recent WT quotes that echo similar sentiments if you'd like. But I would tootiredtocare to show me how I have been intellectually dishonest.

88

Jwfacts-- Why So Many Contradictions?

by Recovery in

i am well aware that many members of this board adhere to the view that the wt and/or the bible is contradictory.

the question is: if paul grundy is so enlightened as to 'the truth about the truth', why is he so contradictory?.

jwfacts to me (in a personal message): "much of the information at jwfacts.com is from the research of people far more gifted then me,and comes from jwn.

Recovery

I don't know how else I can word it for you. I lined up jwfacts earlier statements with those he stated later. Read carefully.

12

Recovery - Why so much intellectual dishonesty?

by tootired2care in

recovery likes to point out little nit-picky technical with the jwfacts.com website.

recovery to me is aptly described in jesus illustration as the one who strains the gnat but gulps the camel.. why can't he acknowledge any of the responses and evidence presented to his questions in the threads that he's created?

furthermore why doesn't recovery use the same critical standard on the organization that has claimed to be selected by christ and is spirit directed?

Recovery

The Watchtower does not call itself 'Bible facts'. In fact on numerous occassions it has advised readers that everything contained within should not be regarded as fact. On two occassions I have presented arguments that he has not been able to overcome (at least not without the assistance of someone like Leolaia), and he will never admit he is in error. He will never admit he contradicts himself and is simply concerned with his Google ranking and how many hits his website is getting.

Time Is At Hand, 1916 edition, opening forward

""Our mistake was evidently not in respect to the ending of the Times of the Gentiles; we drew a FALSE conclusion, however, not authorized by the Word of the Lord."

9-1-83 wt
"Although the Bible Students had elders and deacons (ministerial servants), FALSE religious ideas still prevailed in some respects. Thus right into the 20th century elders were chosen by the congregations through a democratic voting process, indicated by a show of hands."

1870s: We do not object to changing our opinions on any subject, or discarding former applications of prophecy, or any other scripture, when we see a good reason for the change, — in fact, it is important that we should be willing to unlearn errors and mere traditions, as to learn truth.... It is our duty to "prove all things." — by the unerring Word, — "and hold fast to that which is good."

We do not even aver that there is no mistake in our interpretation of prophecy and our calculations of chronology.

Zion's Watch Tower, 1908

Will we ever see such honesty from jwfacts? I doubt it.

88

Jwfacts-- Why So Many Contradictions?

by Recovery in

i am well aware that many members of this board adhere to the view that the wt and/or the bible is contradictory.

the question is: if paul grundy is so enlightened as to 'the truth about the truth', why is he so contradictory?.

jwfacts to me (in a personal message): "much of the information at jwfacts.com is from the research of people far more gifted then me,and comes from jwn.

Recovery

This site trumps jwfacts website by a long shot so I could honestly care less about how much his google ranking/site traffic will increase. When you type "Jehovah's Witnesses" on Google you will come to this site before you do his. And that's all that really matters LOL

Changing the topic to child abuse/WT errors/the governing body/anything else you can come up with won't erase the contradictions. Jwfacts couldn't even defend them. What makes you think you can?

88

Jwfacts-- Why So Many Contradictions?

by Recovery in

i am well aware that many members of this board adhere to the view that the wt and/or the bible is contradictory.

the question is: if paul grundy is so enlightened as to 'the truth about the truth', why is he so contradictory?.

jwfacts to me (in a personal message): "much of the information at jwfacts.com is from the research of people far more gifted then me,and comes from jwn.

Recovery

bttt

278

Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

by Recovery in

jwfacts has an article that explains why the great crowd must be in heaven.

i am also aware that many of these are the same arguments that stemmed from the 'awakenings at bethel' so my statements are not simply attacks of jwfact's character (since these arguments are probably not original) but rather his copy and paste of what others have said instead of verifying it as 'fact' for himself.. so here are jwfacts arguments:.

1. he shows that russell and rutherford (at some point) believed that the great crowd were in heaven.. 2. each term that describes the great crowd of revelation 7 is else used to described the anointed by the wt.

Recovery

Leolaia do you have anything of perspective to add to the magic vs miracles thread?

398

Jwfacts, Why Do You Equate Miracles With Magic?

by Recovery in

i have a question for the author of the website jwfacts.

as i was reading the sparlock article, i couldn't help but notice something seriously wrong:.

"the bible abounds in vivid fantasy, such as its many celestial descriptions, or the portrayal of warring kingdoms with imaginary beasts.. the sparlock message is confusing, as much for an adult as for a child, as the bible shows that god's followers practice magic, even if they are usually referred to as miracles.

Recovery

If you do not have the time or willpower to read thru 20 pages of information simply read my one, consolidated post that proves conclusively that magic is not equivocated with miracles.

Showing That Magics Cannot Be Equivocated To Miracles:

Illustrations:
You have two cars. They look exactly the same. They are both brand new, being driven for the first time with 0 mileage. They are the same shape, size, color, and have all the same features on the outside. But one is a hybrid car that runs off a battery and the other car runs on premium gas. Now will you ever hear a car dealership call these two cars the same, sell them for the same price, and make absolutely no distinction between the two? Of course not. You would definitely want to know whether your car is a hybrid or a regular car no matter how similar they look on the outside. That is the difference between magic and miracles. On the outside, they may appear to be the same, and allow you to reach a particular destination (supernatural repercussions), but the source (the inside of the car) is what makes them different. That is why one is condemned (magic) and one is approved by God (miracles).

Now here's an illustration. Imagine that your license as an attorney has been suspended temporarily and you are ordered by the state board to not practice any form of law, as your license is now suspended. Would you violate the law if you study your old college law books, examine precedent court cases, and learn new techniques by watching other lawyers present their cases? Of course not. You were instructed to not practice law.

You have two identical ovens, side by side. One is conventional, the other is convectional. Surely, when you are baking, you will note that there are some recipes that call for different instructions when using a conventional or a convectional oven. Now why is that, elderelite? In fact when baking, if you are using a conventional oven you might have to use a completely different temperature than if you were using a convectional oven. Both ovens are identical in model and both get the job of baking done. So why do some recipes call for different instructions for two seemingly identical ovens who simply have a different SOURCE of energy (speaking on a molecular level)? Is it because that source is important and makes a big difference?

So you are saying that how the electricity is used makes the difference and the distinction between the two ovens, correct?

So I am saying that how the supernatural force is used makes the difference and the distinction between miracles and magic.

A miracle's supernatural force is under the manipulation of God, a magic's supernatural force is under the manipulation of something other than God.

The "How" is the defining difference as you showed us quite clearly, elderelite.

The Bible vs. jwfacts:

Jehovah says "YOU must not look for omens, and YOU must not practice magic." (Lev 19:26)

Jwfacts says: All the people in the Bible DID practice magic and there was no distinction between the practice of magic and miracles performed of God, directly contradicting God's word.

Etymologically Speaking:

Etymological origins of magic: Middle English magique, from Middle French, from Latin magice, from Greek magike, feminine of magikosMagian, magical, from magos magus, sorcerer , of Iranian origin; akin to Old Persian maguš sorcerer

Etymological origins of miracle: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Late Latin miraculum, from Latin, a wonder, marvel, from mirarito wonder at

Lexicographically Speaking:

After looking up the word magic a thesarus we find the following associated synonyms:bewitchery, bewitchment, conjuring, devilry(or deviltry) , diablerie, enchantment, ensorcellment, mojo, necromancy, sorcery, thaumaturgy, voodooism, witchcraft, witchery, wizardry

Now logically if two words can be used interchangeably and they have the same meaning, you should likewise find *SIMILAR* synonyms when you look up each word. But such an occurrence cannot be found with the words 'magic' and 'miracle'.

After looking up the word miracle in a thesarus we find the following associated synonyms: caution, flash, marvel, wonder, phenomenon, portent, prodigy, sensation, splendor

What If There's No Apparent Distinction From Onlookers:

We are not allowing the 'onlookers' to define what is magic for us, anymore than we would allow the pagan idol worshippers to define who/what is 'God' for us. That is a fallacious and weak argument, because of course those who believe in and practice sorcery, witchcraft, and other forms of spiritism would only view such a thing as magic as there is no distinction from their standpoint.

Of course, if I am not a Hebrew, I am likely a pagan who believes in thousands of deities. If we are talking about something of a Biblical theological nature, should the pagan's viewpoint be weighed equivocally with that of the Hebrews? Should it be argued that the Bible teaches that there a hundreds and hundreds of 'God's' because many pagan deities are mentioned and when many miracles were performed, independent observers couldn't attribute the difference to Jehovah or one of their gods? Of course not. This isn't about neutrality from a certain individual's standpoint, but this is about the distinction that the Bible makes for us. We could argue in circles all day long about what consistutes a miracle and what consistitutes magic, but when we are speaking from a strictly Biblical perspective, the distinction between the two is made clear.

Use of a Similar Adjective (Miraculous):

We have now moved from the realm of nouns to the realm of adjectives. This is where the distinction becomes muddy because the practice itself is not being described, however, a description of said practice is being described. Let me illustrate it for you. You have two words of a religious association: bishop and minister. Now I'm sure if you go to the dictionary you can find that both nouns can be described as 'religious', perhaps even more specificially having to do with 'Christian religion'. Would you conclude that the word minister is the lexicographical equivalent of bishop and that they should be used interchangeably because as adjectives they are described using similar words? Of course not. A minister can simply be defined as a preacher or a servant, while a bishop MUST have some form of ecclesiastical authority, yet they are both described and related to a religious nature. I hope this helps.

Casting Spells?:

There are those that will argue that the use of amen is essentially the same as the use of abracadabra. But is this really the case?

This word in both English and Greek is a transliteration from the Hebrew 'a·men′. The meaning is “so be it,” or “surely.” The Hebrew root word from which it is drawn ('a·man′) means “be faithful; be trustworthy.” When a person says something that is agreeable, the term "amen" is often used.

Now if someone says something that you agree with, are you likely to say abracadabra? Why or why not?

88

Jwfacts-- Why So Many Contradictions?

by Recovery in

i am well aware that many members of this board adhere to the view that the wt and/or the bible is contradictory.

the question is: if paul grundy is so enlightened as to 'the truth about the truth', why is he so contradictory?.

jwfacts to me (in a personal message): "much of the information at jwfacts.com is from the research of people far more gifted then me,and comes from jwn.

Recovery

All direct quotations. It seems jwfacts can't seem to remember what he writes. Or that he is also disillusioned with his own words as they are obviously contradictory.

So we await as he somehow explains away these contradictions and why onlookers should take his site seriously when it has been shown to be in error on several occassions.