thanks Psac for coming to my aid , is it only me (perhaps ) that sees the other two Jesus' named as two seperate from that Jesus connected to James and so their parentage is irrelevant . I have said that this does not prove that the first Jesus is the Jesus but ,to me at least , the fact of different dads named proves nothing one way or the other . Am I going mad ? mP and Phizzy do not answer this solely on the grounds that I am a Christian !
Posts by jhine
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52Josephus and Jesus
by jhine inon another thread wot i read a few days ago and can't remember which one, someone asked why josephus never mentions jesus .
at the time i had no knowledge of this so kept quiet .
however today while reading an excellent book (don't know if i should advertise but if anyone wants the title let me know ) i have found out that josephus mentions jesus in around about manner.
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52
Josephus and Jesus
by jhine inon another thread wot i read a few days ago and can't remember which one, someone asked why josephus never mentions jesus .
at the time i had no knowledge of this so kept quiet .
however today while reading an excellent book (don't know if i should advertise but if anyone wants the title let me know ) i have found out that josephus mentions jesus in around about manner.
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jhine
Again you say "the fact that the father is downright wrong should be enuff proof "
mP are you delibreately missing the point that the two other men named Jesus are CLEARLY not the same as the Jesus connected to James ?
Therefore the names of their fathers is irrelevant . No, that doesn't prove that it is the Jesus of the gospels but as you keep asserting it certainly does not discount it ..
The parentage of the OTHER two men is of no importance at all (except to them )
The fact that Josephus does not mention Jesus very much has been addressed on another thread , it has been suggestsd that as a Jew he would not have wanted to give "air time " to this heretical (as he saw it ) sect.
Don't suppose that you have looked at the other non Christian mentions of Jesus cited above . I get the impression that you don't want any of this to be true . I suggest that we leave it at that and agree to disagree.
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52
Josephus and Jesus
by jhine inon another thread wot i read a few days ago and can't remember which one, someone asked why josephus never mentions jesus .
at the time i had no knowledge of this so kept quiet .
however today while reading an excellent book (don't know if i should advertise but if anyone wants the title let me know ) i have found out that josephus mentions jesus in around about manner.
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jhine
In your original post you seem to state that the Jesus mentioned in connection with James CANNOT be THE Jesus because a different father is mentioned . It seems to me that two men called Jesus later in the passage are not the original Jesus connected with James , so the fact that their father's names are not Joseph is of no consequence and does not prove that the Jesus first mentioned is not Jesus Christ son of God. That is my point.
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52
Josephus and Jesus
by jhine inon another thread wot i read a few days ago and can't remember which one, someone asked why josephus never mentions jesus .
at the time i had no knowledge of this so kept quiet .
however today while reading an excellent book (don't know if i should advertise but if anyone wants the title let me know ) i have found out that josephus mentions jesus in around about manner.
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jhine
Phizzy , in the interests of truth and fairness (,I am a Christian !!) I have just read the Josephus mention of Jesus and His death and I have to say that it does not read to me like it is quoting from Christians , it reads as a straightforward report . As I said scholars do think that there may have been some tampering later by Christians but only to "fine tune "the mention . after much debate and look see the general opinion is that the basic facts about Jesus were reported by Josephus . You can look all this up easily yourself.
YOu make no mention of the other sources I list , which I will read properly myself , again to be fair .There are many articles online about the authenticity of the historical Jesus , so to anyone reading this I urge you to find out for yourselves.
Mission accomplished and gift bought for soon to be 8yr old grandaughter , I am sure that you are most relieved !.
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52
Josephus and Jesus
by jhine inon another thread wot i read a few days ago and can't remember which one, someone asked why josephus never mentions jesus .
at the time i had no knowledge of this so kept quiet .
however today while reading an excellent book (don't know if i should advertise but if anyone wants the title let me know ) i have found out that josephus mentions jesus in around about manner.
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jhine
mp ,
yes I was ,in my original post, paraphrasing because I was quoting from the book that i am reading , the author of which is is well versed in all of the ancient writings , he is an ex bishop , So I wondered why he would take the reference to James as to mean the brother of Jesus Christ when these objections of yours would obviously negate that meaning . So I have just read the passages concerned from Antiquities 20.1 onward . It seems that you did a bit of a hatchet job and the parts you left out put a different spin on the whole thing .
Yes two OTHER men named Jesus are mentioned , neither with fathers named Joseph , both of whom are given the job of high priest . As you pointed out Jesus was a very common name and clearly these are two seperate people from the Jesus named as Jame's brother , the one who is called Christ .
I have also , though I admit briefly , looked at the evidence that Josephus was tampered with and it seems that scholars agree that where Josephus mentions Jesus directly it is highly likely that some tampering went on later by Christians, the passage ,without one or two alterations is authentic and that JOsephus does mention Jesus and His cricifixion .
I have not yet had time to look at these other mentions , though I will as soon as poss . Others may like to look for themselves at
Tacitus Annals 15 .44
Plyny the Younger Epistles x 96 and Letters
Babylonian Talmud
Lucaian The Death of Peregrine
you did catch me off guard I admit by asking for these references , I only meant to answer the question as to Josephus in the first place and I have done my best in the time I have got at the moment ( I now have to dash to Asda to get a birthday pressie for my Grandaughter )
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52
Josephus and Jesus
by jhine inon another thread wot i read a few days ago and can't remember which one, someone asked why josephus never mentions jesus .
at the time i had no knowledge of this so kept quiet .
however today while reading an excellent book (don't know if i should advertise but if anyone wants the title let me know ) i have found out that josephus mentions jesus in around about manner.
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jhine
Phizzy , I think that there is a lot of evidence of an historical Jesus , He is mentioned in Roman reports and I believe in writing by at least one Rabbi of the time I'm sure that I have heard mention that there is at least as much evidence of the existance of Jesus as that of any other historical figure non of whom are questioned . I think that some people don't want Jesus to have existed so don't look at the evidence, just assume that it doesn't exist .
If Josephus was made up by Christians they would have him mention Jesus a lot wouldn't they . Non of these accusations reallly hold water when you examine them logically do they ?
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52
Josephus and Jesus
by jhine inon another thread wot i read a few days ago and can't remember which one, someone asked why josephus never mentions jesus .
at the time i had no knowledge of this so kept quiet .
however today while reading an excellent book (don't know if i should advertise but if anyone wants the title let me know ) i have found out that josephus mentions jesus in around about manner.
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jhine
On another thread wot I read a few days ago and can't remember which one, someone asked why Josephus never mentions Jesus . At the time I had no knowledge of this so kept quiet . However today while reading an excellent book (don't know if I should advertise but if anyone wants the title let me know ) I have found out that Josephus mentions Jesus in around about manner. in Antiquities Josephus calls James "the brother of the so called Messiah "
Had to start a new thread as I could'nt find who asked the question . Hope that this is of some help . Sorry if someone else has already pointed this out .
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24
1975
by DATA-DOG inhere is a great youtube video that i just stumbled upon.
it is a little lengthy, but for good reason.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8grlhaxtslg .
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jhine
thanks DATA-DOG , did anyone on this site actually sell anything significant and donate the money and if you did how certain were you that Armageddon was coming in '75 ? People must have felt pretty convinced by the Watchtower hype to go to such extreme lengths .
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24
1975
by DATA-DOG inhere is a great youtube video that i just stumbled upon.
it is a little lengthy, but for good reason.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8grlhaxtslg .
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jhine
2+2=5 thank you for your answer , as said earlier a ypung witness I spoke to was unaware of the donations and when I told her she was certaian that the monies would be given back . So the org. would really leave people homeless and penniless rather than say they got it wrong .
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24
1975
by DATA-DOG inhere is a great youtube video that i just stumbled upon.
it is a little lengthy, but for good reason.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8grlhaxtslg .
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jhine
please will someone who knows about this let me know if money from the sale of houses cars etc was ever refunded to witnesses who thought that Armageddon was coming in '75