Posts by problemaddict

46

The WT Isn't Going Away (sorry got long)

by LostGeneration in

jw
friends

i've seen more threads and comments in the last week about the "demise of the wt" than in some time.

several were on threads about the donation arrangement and how its going to backfire in some way on the wt.

oh and the lone elder who was pissed in some sort of passive-aggresive manner about it when he presented the resolution.

problemaddict

Guys lets not forget something I believe is key. JW's are just like everyone else. I eman there are good and bad, but MOST are good. Good people, kind hearts, love others, etc... They just have a wacked out belief system, most of us used to share. So we are aware of the double standard, but many "in" JW's just look the oither direction. For every father shunning their child, there are 5 who refuse. Why do you think they make it an issue int he WT or assemblies.....because it isn't a problem?

We just hear the bad. I will never forget something my wife said. When it comes to our toddler she said, "Be carfule with him around JW's, because he is a really tender kind kid, and the community of happy people that reach out even ont he surface, will make him want to be around them." (My wife has clearly made progress out of the religion).

Sure enough, a family member was watching him and took him to a meeting, and my kid says "Jehovah people so nice!" Now he sees people with suits and calls them Jehovah people. From ONE MEETING.

So don't underestimate the value of community in this scenario. A community based on bad tactics but loving at the surface, is still more of a cimmunity than alot of people have.

18

Shepherd the Flock Book - Did Your Wife or Other Family Member Find It?

by jw07 in

those of you who served as elders, did your wife or other family members / friends find your secret shepherd the flock book?

how did they react?

how did you react?.

problemaddict

A freind of mine attended MTS school and was appointed an elder right before going. He gave he his flock book and told me if I wanted to make copies go for it. "might help me out of a jam someday" is what he said. Yep.......MTS school.

8

maybe I am reading too much

by roberto avon in

while i was reading a book ( picture emclosed ) some toughts came up in my mind.

brothers in the usa are not allowed to have a moustache unlesse it concerns coloured brothers but white brothers are allowed to have a beard if they are bold ( i read it on this forum ) so i am very sorry for the coloured brothers who want a beard, no way!.

in france, brothers are allowed to have a beard and in scandinavia " longer " hair ( i would like to advise " worlds apart " a very interesting movie about shunning ).. so if a french, coloured brother moves to scandinavia and let his hair grow and then .

problemaddict

Robert, nobody can stop you from growing hair on your face head or otherwise. In fact, one could argue God put that there for a reason. Even in the USA, if you grow a beard, they just won't use you for anything. Its not like they will ask you to leave.

In Europe and Scandinavia it is similar. Outside of Spain I have seen very few elders serve with beards. In Sweden I saw everyone clean cut. In Norway the same. I would say the same thing to do is to remain clean shaven if that is something you are sitting wondering about. But usually when you are travelling between countries, but still visiting witnesses, you are given a pass in Europe.

If by cloured freinds, you mean the black or african american JW's here in the US, I woudl say that basically the same rules apply. With one forth or a bit more of the witnesses in America black, you will sometimes find a few specific rules unique to them within the organization, but this is all local and usually just a few elders going off the rails.

27

I'm a target now

by Stirred in

jw
friends

well, it has come to another fork in the road.

i have been going to other meetings and skipping more.

car groups and two bros tried stopping by my house recently but i was not home or gates were locked.

problemaddict

Stirred....think about this for a minute.

So you no longer "support" the religion, and you are thinking that your "integrity" dictates that you must DA yourself. Your sense of integrity, is coming to you from the JW point of view, and is coloring your choices. If you no longer support the religion......just stop supporting the religion. When you fade they can no longer count you as a member, when you move they will forget you, and you can go on with your life apart from them maybe showing up at your door now and then. You don't even have to tell them who you are, just say no, or give them a card with jwfacts.com on it.

Going through the process they have developed to marginalize people that no longer agree with them is giving them control STILL. Don't do it. No need. Think of an analgous situation where you would cut of your nose because your face told you to.

46

The WT Isn't Going Away (sorry got long)

by LostGeneration in

jw
friends

i've seen more threads and comments in the last week about the "demise of the wt" than in some time.

several were on threads about the donation arrangement and how its going to backfire in some way on the wt.

oh and the lone elder who was pissed in some sort of passive-aggresive manner about it when he presented the resolution.

problemaddict

So let me put in a few thoughts and address some key points.

1) Aging membership. - Yes, the membership is getting old, sick, and tired. But in many places there are "up and coming" people to take the controls. While we think based on an old pew forum that a little more than 60% leave the organization, we do not know how many come back. With population growth, those that are dying can easily be replaced, and membership continues to go up wth population.

2) "New guard" - I had an elder who is 29 years old, tell me he was deeply saddened I have "left mother". So......think the upcoming crop has been properly trained by the branch? Yeah.....me too.

3) Rebranding - JW.org is not just a site, its a rebranding. it has brought them around to modern times, seems pretty slick, and has more reach than the magazines. Don't be surprized if they rebrand alot of things (including the magazines), with JW.org.

4) Practicality and money. - The branch with more of a focus on regional distribution, the internet, and less travelling brothers and places to organize conventions, is already streamlining its cash allocation. Its basically pretty smart. Alot more changes to come there I think. Also, the "practical value" of "biblical principles" is what is being highlighted on the public side. So much so, that people that study find it hard to believe what some of the things were that JW's taught. They slowly are enforcing a narrative around the past, to squeeze it from mattering to everyday people.

5) Recruitment - I have friends who have bible studies. Some they meet int he field, some they get from the hall, and I have seen a few baptized. So it still happens. The chief person they go after is the apathetic believer. They still focus on the "basics" to them, and then throw in and whitewash the rest. By the time someone REALLY figures out they can't celebrate their birthday anymore, they are usually already in pretty deep.

So in short, to hope the religion goes away, isn't realistic. There are plenty of die hards out there, and don't be surprised if they even are dragged a bit kicking and screamign into some kind of reform, even behind the scenes. Its hard to get disfellowshipped for taking blood now a days.....but that was not always the case.

39

Vacation Destination: Looking for Input

by confusedandalone in

jw
friends

so when the kids get out of school we plan on going away for 3 to 4 weeks for vacation but we want to go somewhere that is actually enjoyable and not just packed full of things for the kids to do.

cruises are out, to confining.

i live in the u.s. so i want to abroad an continue to get the kids passports stamped so they can be exposed to as many cultures as possible.. .

problemaddict

Ok.....so here are some thoughts now that I see where you are leaning. Also, I didn't see alot of interest in Argentina.....but it might be a really nice mix of all of the things you are looking for. Safe, beautiful, historical, culturally different, and from Florida the flights are reasonable as well as shorter than from most places. You could even package it with a rougher place like Bolivia or Peru (Machu Pichu off of the bucket list is cool).

I went through almost all of south America. Brazil is very Afro Carribean, but witht he world cup, it will be almost impossible to get ahotel depending on when you go.

I've been to Scotland/Ireland, and that was fantastic. Just pick the sunnier time of year. Bars are some of the best parts of those places......so maybe later when the kids are older?

I personally wouldn't screw with Nigeria or Ghana right now, although i have been to South Africa in the past and enjoyed it.

New Zealand is actually the next trip I am taking. Alot of hiking to do, and I love LOTR which helps. The gloworm caves are one of the things I want to see before I die.

All in all, i would still suggest south america. A nice stepping stone to something even more adventurous. Argentina is easy and cosmopolitain, with plenty of rugged sites depending on time and wallet. Patagonia, Iguazu falls, Bariloche looks like the swiss Alps, El Chalten is anational park in Patagonia where i had the best hike and best steak I have ever had in my life. I dream of them. Bolivia is pretty rough around the edges, and you can see the Uyuni Salt flats which are a site to behold. Machu Pichu and cuzco are tourist traps, but for good reason. You can even go trough lake titticacca to get from Bolivia to Peru by bus.

Sweden......is.......awesome. So is Norway. Go in summer, and the sun is out until 11. People are friendly (in their own way), but mainly they are accepting and interesting. The golf was fun too.

But if I was you, I would say Buenos Aires, then Chile. Stop in Peru on the way home if you want to see Machu Pichu, or depending on budget, go to the Galapagos Islands in Ecuador. Talk about once in a lifetime. The craddle of evolution.

Ok, thats all i got.

My current list of travel destinations is as follows.

1) New Zealand

2) Iceland (northern lights viewing)

3) Lisbon (Portugal)

4) Marakech (Morraco)

5) Gansu, China (and more)

6) Croatia (plitvice lakes)

I'm sure there is more.....but a guy can dream right?

39

Vacation Destination: Looking for Input

by confusedandalone in

jw
friends

so when the kids get out of school we plan on going away for 3 to 4 weeks for vacation but we want to go somewhere that is actually enjoyable and not just packed full of things for the kids to do.

cruises are out, to confining.

i live in the u.s. so i want to abroad an continue to get the kids passports stamped so they can be exposed to as many cultures as possible.. .

problemaddict

CAA.....how adventurous do you want to be? How old are the kids?

You could rent from airbnb in Argentina, and there are day trips and 2-3 day trips in family friendly hostles you could do. Different culture, language, and scenery......and there is amazing steak and wine for the grown ups. Iguazu Falls, Bariloche, hikeing, seeing land glaciers break off into the lakes, etc... Really great.

84

One thing about this site that bothers me

by keyser soze in

jw
friends

the constant references to 'window washers' as something derogatory.. i understand the context of it-that most jws are uneducated, and unqualified to do much more.

but sometimes the references seem snobbish, almost mean-spirited.

one poster, on another thread, essentially referred to window washers as 'losers'.

problemaddict

I agree that no blue collar worker or job should ever be demeaned. I don't think however, that has ever been the INTENT of those comments. Basically, it is a way of stating that the elders have ZERO TRAINING.

It is less about the "janitor" statement, and more about the elder being unqualified to do things that they do. Such as

investigate a crime

marriage consultant

trauma counselor

spiritual advisor

life coach

Elders are not qualified to do these tasks.....just like most window washers would not be. So it becomes a pejorative meaning when stated.

That being said....i get that it is offensive and i still vote we strike it from the vernacular. I have never used it myself, but I don't think i blinked very hard when someone else did.

61

CO is chasing me . Meeting him tomorrow.

by Ancientofdays in

this week is the "special week", co is back.. he phone called me this morning asking to meet together.. i replied "i don't refuse people who want talking to me, but my condition is that you must be alone, and we meet in public space.".

he agreed and we will meet tomorrow in a cafe.. .

this week he already met with my wife in the kh, and he told her "i believe your housband is apostate !!

problemaddict

Hey AOD. If you insist on meeting him, even out of a fight instinct, I understand. Sometimes we lik to see where we can take it. The most important thing to consider is that two witnesses against you do not have to be in the same place at the same time. So be aware of that.

I would however not let him drive the conversation. make some small chit chat......then when it seems as though he is going to do his thing, ask him if he wanted to get together with you to apologize for slandering you to your own wife!

Huh!?

Yes you told my wife you thought I was an apotate, and you also met with her without my consent. Are you interested in my wife? Are you attempting to subvery our marriage or demean the respect she has for me?

Seriously AOD, it comes down to this. If some guy you worked with cornered your wife and told her he thought you were doing a really crappy job and should be fired.....if you didn't beat him up you would at least confront him about it and make it clear that behavior will not be tolerated.

So you should do the same here. Do not let him run things or skip by this issue. Ask him clearly what gives him in his mind the authority to slander a man to his wife, and usurp your headship.

All of that will push his buttons. Don't let us, and get some answers. You already know how to respons to whatever lame nonsense comes out of it.

48

Strike 3 for the elderette and me! (???) I never heard a JW talk SO much about Jesus!

by Faithful Witness in

miss k and her friend miss w arrived promptly today.

our scheduled topic of discussion: jesus' claim to be "the way, the truth and the life..." john 14:6 since she was basing this topic choice on the fact that i had quoted that verse, i'm not sure why... she spent what seemed like a very long time, hopping through scriptures that all said that jesus was the truth, the way, or the life.

ok, so we agreed... i kept waiting for her to get to a point, or sway from this principle.. of course, she summed up with scriptures that show how jesus submits to the father, and what does that mean we should do?

problemaddict

jehovah in the NT. Its an interesting topic. It does seem to me that superstition (or reverence.....depending on how you look at it), colored what some did with God's name at one time. I don't have aproblem with the NT using Jehovah or the te, or whatever, when it actually is quoting from a place in the OT where the name appears. That seems reasonable to me. But I think that only accounts for 87 of the 237 instances of Jehovah in the NT.

So going with strict "translation" not "version", this would simply be dishonest, since the oldest, highest rated manuscripts do NOT contain that name. Better to just not worry about inserting it. Instead they use the "J texts" which came many centuries after many available manuscripts to support this idea. Jason DeBuem in his book "Truth in Translation", by and large defends the NWT (which I don't really have a problem with), but the appendix at the end does discuss the use of jehovah in the NWT thoroughly and in an east way to understand. I would highly recommend it since this is a topic of interest for you.

As far as the rest of it, you did great. Why not keep going. Next time focus on authority. Who has it? Who does not? Searcher gave you some great WT quotes where they relate you SALVATION to wether or not you listen to the GB, even though they are prove to misunderstandings, change teachings, and then enforce teachings through shunning if it comes to that.

Responsability and authority are not the same thing, but JW's conflate the two with ease. It is not just semantics, it is a serious cultural and doctrinal tipping point that allows them to control people from the margins. That topic is one I have with A LOT of JW's and they usually respond very favorably.

And there is also blood. The single most indefensible doctrine there is. You can blow this up using just your reasoning ability nd the bible SO FAST it will have their head spin.