i thought it would be interesting for people to just post a few things about themselves so we can get to know each other just a bit.. try posting 10 facts about your life.. joel.
1. i was born and raised in south georgia.. 2. my favorite subject in school was math.. 3. i was in the fulltime service (bethel and pioneer) for 4 years.. 4. my favorite color is blue.. 5. mitch and i have been together over 12 years.. 6. we live in a suburb of atlanta georgia.. 7. we love to eat out and have friends over for dinner and board games.. 8. the only sport i was ever any good at is tennis.. 9. my favorite tv show of all time is the simpsons.. 10. we are both naturists and wish we could lay on the beach naked every day.
Okay, 10 facts:
1. I wish I looked like my profile picture.
2. I've been married for 9 years.
3. I met my husband at a Star Trek convention.
4. I collect porcelin treasure boxes.
5. Favorite show: Stargate SG-1
6. Favorite movie: Titanic
7. Favorite author: Robert Fulghum
8. Dream job: Science fiction novelist
9. Favoite color: Purple or any shade thereof
10. I'm a Pagan.
Silverleaf
in another thread by silent lambs, there are several references to the subject line.
as a neophyte atheist/evolutionist (possibly) it seems as if the above references to 'christian, bible-trained' conscience imply some superiority to others of humans' consciences.
i'm confidant there are many of my ilk who have made many huge contributions to the human race and were of high integrity.
Hello Stephanus,
The list is not mine, I found it on the web and took a sampling of people listed there whom I thought were notable. There are tons of others and Charles Darwin actually WAS on the list also. These people were chosen based either on definitive statements made by them they did not believe in diety or on statements that seemed to convey that idea. I never said theists didn't contribute anything to society, I merely provided some support for Pat's argument that non-theists and atheists are very capable of being intelligent, moral and noteworthy contributors to society.
Silverleaf
in another thread by silent lambs, there are several references to the subject line.
as a neophyte atheist/evolutionist (possibly) it seems as if the above references to 'christian, bible-trained' conscience imply some superiority to others of humans' consciences.
i'm confidant there are many of my ilk who have made many huge contributions to the human race and were of high integrity.
Hi again Pat, you wrote:
>> I'm pretty sure Thomas Jefferson was an outspoken atheist. But there are plenty of others, I just don't want to take the time to look it up.<<
I found an interesting site,
http://www.visi.com/~markg/atheists.html
that lists quite an array of famous people as being atheist or 'non-theist.' Notable among them: Abraham Lincoln, Walt Whitman, Mark Twain, Thomas Edison, Sigmund Freud, H.G. Wells, Frank Lloyd Wright, Albert Einstein, Isaac Asimov, Gene Roddenberry and Carl Sagan - and that's only naming a few. Most of those listed are known for intelligence, creativity and innovating ideas.
It makes you go hmmmmmm, doesn't it?
Silverleaf
in another thread by silent lambs, there are several references to the subject line.
as a neophyte atheist/evolutionist (possibly) it seems as if the above references to 'christian, bible-trained' conscience imply some superiority to others of humans' consciences.
i'm confidant there are many of my ilk who have made many huge contributions to the human race and were of high integrity.
Hi Pat,
I absolutely agree with you. I've read many tirades by those who seem to think that 'Bible-trained Christians' are the only people capable of moral behavior or 'good works' and anyone with a brain knows that's simply not true. Morality comes over time and is a response to the experiences we have in life. One does not need to be a 'Bible trained Christian' to be moral or good or to contribute something meaningful to society. Many agnostics and atheists and even polytheists have contributed greatly to society and they don't need the Bible or any other holy book to tell them right from wrong.
Silverleaf
i mean, if we have been created by the evolution then, our life really have no purpose.
we live about 80 years and then we die and it's finish.
it seem really dull to me.
Hello Nicolas,
You ask, if we were created by evolution, then what is the purpose of life?
While I tend to think that there is a higher purpose to life, though my reasoning has nothing to do with the Bible, I think I would answer your question that, if we are here solely because of evolution and there is no creator or divine plan governing our existence, then the purpose of life is for life to evolve to such a state that it can create its own purpose. If we evolved with no help, then life exists for its own sake and the purpose IS evolution.
Silverleaf
i have gotten a little mean in my old age.
my sister-in-law is a born again church of god life time member and sometimes is a little dogmatic.
i love to point out fallacies in her religious thinking.. this might have been a little unfeeling on my part but she was talking to my wife about a tragic happening in her life 26 years ago.
Hi Rex,
You wrote:
>>Silverleaf,
You need to quit painting all with one, wide brush. People are individuals and not 'fundys'. You will not find any less variety there than any other group, just much less psycholgical problems and disfunctional personalities. <<
Well, Rex, I will admit that I sometimes use the word 'fundy' as a derogatory term but I don't always mean 'all Christians' when I use it. Of course everyone is an individual, and some individuals are 'fundies,' you know the type, know-it-alls, cramming their beliefs down other people's throats and looking down their noses with disdain on anyone who is not as dedicated or faithfaul as they are. It was that group of people I was referring to, not all Christians of course - and Ken called his SIL a fundie first so I assume HE thinks she is one. Since I don't know her, I can't be sure, but I'll take his word for it in this forum.
Now as far as there being >>less psycholgical problems and disfunctional personalities<< - I assume you're referring to Christians in general, not 'fundies' per se? Because anyone who is a "know-it-all, cramming their beliefs down other people's throats and looking down their noses with disdain on anyone who is not as dedicated or faithfaul as they are," has, by definition, a psychological problem and a dysfunctional personality. Wouldn't you agree?
Speaking from personal experience, had I actually encountered >>less psycholgical problems and disfunctional personalities<< among fundamentalists, I might be one today.
Silverleaf
i have gotten a little mean in my old age.
my sister-in-law is a born again church of god life time member and sometimes is a little dogmatic.
i love to point out fallacies in her religious thinking.. this might have been a little unfeeling on my part but she was talking to my wife about a tragic happening in her life 26 years ago.
Hi Ken!
I don't think you were being especially mean. Granted your sisiter-in-law's experience was tragic, and her friend's response was crude, but you were commenting on the fact that she could not understand how someone could be so callous. I find it amazing that so many fundies can have very little regard for the feelings and beliefs of others and treat them like garbage, yet they are able to see very clearly when someone else says something that hurts their feelings.
Silverleaf
i've been interested in the discussion on the 'for those of us who believe in god' thread and aguest wrote this:.
"we have been misled into understand what 'faith' really is.".
if we have all been misled, then can someone explain what exactly faith really is?
Hello Shelby,
I stated:
quote:
To say that an individual [whether a human or an animal] asks for help from the Lord and receives it because they had faith and asked sincerely, is fine, but to say that an individual who asks for help or guidance and does not receive it, does not because they were not sincere, or did not have enough faith or the right faith or did not ask the right way, falls short as an explanation.
And you wrote:
>>May I ask you in what way such 'falls short'? Honey, if I've given you instructions on how to approach me... and HEAR me... and YOU fail or refuse to follow them... can you blame ME? Really? You indeed asked, but you didn't do it in the 'Way' I told you that you NEEDED to, or THROUGH the one I told you to go through... in order for ME to hear it... and respond. Or... you did do it that 'Way'... and I responded... but you didn't LISTEN... in the 'Way'... I told you you NEEDED to. You are determined to do it YOUR way... and then fault ME when you don't get what you want. <<
Exactly my point. This is a circular argument. It’s easy to say that people who prayed and did not get an answer did not do it right. It’s safe and it always applies. No matter HOW much someone needs, if they don’t get help, it HAS TO BE because THEY failed somehow, not because they’re asking of someone who either, a) does not exist, or b) does not care. I offer this example: When a child asks for a cookie and says, “Gimme a cookie!” it’s perfectly acceptable for a parent to say, “Not until you ask properly.” When a child is ill and needs medication and says, “Make me better!” for a parent to say, “Not until you ask properly,” is unreasonable and cruel.
>>Let me give you an example: you have been taught that God does not even SPEAK to earthling man, yes?<<
Actually, me personally, no. I have not been taught that per se. I feel it is a common belief however.
>>You have ALSO been taught not to give heed to your dreams, yes? <<
Again, not me personally. I do heed my dreams when I believe they have an important message.
>>Wait! Uh-oh... THIS says that God's talks to folks during their dreams. Say WHAT!? But the Watchtower, who supposedly consider the Bible as the "ultimate authority" has told you NOT to pay attention to your dreams. <<
Actually the Watchtower tells me nothing. I’m not a JW and never have been. I’m here because I long considered myself a victim of the WTS mentality and when I found this board I hoped that I might have something to offer in helping those who have left, if nothing more than my support for their efforts to break free of the cult.
>>Do you understand my point, Silver? STOP listening to 'earthling man'... and LISTEN TO GOD. But you have to listen to HIM... by listening... to the One He APPOINTED... to SPEAK! And... you would most certainly have to BELIEVE that He even SPEAKS... yes? And then, when you DID hear something... you would have to EXERCISE faith that it was FROM God... through Christ... and obey. Yes?<<
And to this end, yes. I never said I did not believe in God/dess, while at one time I did not, I do now and I do believe that She has listened when I asked for help and She has answered me. I’m speaking for those who say they have never heard God and don’t think they ever will and don’t have faith and I’m merely saying, if that is how they feel, no amount of testimony of what has happened to others will change their mind and telling them they don’t hear God because they did something wrong is neither fair nor, in my opinion, particularly true. I respect that you don’t agree with that.
You wrote:
>>Why is faith so DIFFICULT a concept for some of you? I am sorry, please forgive me... but I just don't GET it. I am sorry; I just don't. Truly, if you WANTED to have faith, dear ones... you WOULD have faith. Instead, it seems that at EVERY turn, you are trying to find reasons why should NOT have faith. And you cry, "God ain't talkin' to me!" My Lord was speaking truth when he said you are like the little children in the market place who cried out, "We played the flute... but you did not dance; we wailed... but you did not beat yourselves in grief."<<
This is what I mean. Faith is obviously easy for you. You have it. Maybe you did not always have it, but something happened to you to prove your faith. But that has not happened to everyone, for some it will happen and for others it will never happen, but while your efforts are sincere, I fear they are in vain because telling someone they don’t have faith because they don’t want faith does not in any way help them to get it.
Shelby, I really don’t mean to be argumentative, I’m enjoying the debate, I hope you are enjoying it as well.
Silverleaf
i guess i've just been naive.. i was surprized to find that some 'super loyal'.
witnesses i know have been practising witchcraft.. of course, they'd never call it that - it seems that.
when various illnesses arise you get out an assortment.
Hi Metatraon and Jayhawk1,
The things you've described sound like 'magic' not 'magick' or spellcraft and crackpot is definitely the right word. However, herbalists and chiropractors are not spiritists. There's a lot to be said for holistic medicine [in conjunction with modern medicine of course] and while I don't doubt there are some loony chiropractors out there, I've used them for back problems and their methods do work.
Live long and prosper,
Silverleaf
i've been interested in the discussion on the 'for those of us who believe in god' thread and aguest wrote this:.
"we have been misled into understand what 'faith' really is.".
if we have all been misled, then can someone explain what exactly faith really is?
Hi Chris, you wrote:
>>FAITH gives you the oppurtunity to believe in more than just this world. Some people NEED faith.
Chris
I'm proud of this one, sorry!! <<
This IS a good one and it bears repeating. I agree that some people need faith and faith is not a bad thing at all. Unfortunately there are those who just can’t find faith no matter how hard they look and I hate to hear those people told – ‘you’re just not looking in the right place, you’re not trying hard enough, you’re missing the point – blah, blah, blah.’ I don’t think it’s fair to do that to someone, especially when they are hurting because they lost faith. I think the truth is that some people need faith, some people don’t, some people can find it or create it easily and others cannot, but faith is not something that can be taught, nor can it be forced on someone, and those who don’t have it should not be made to feel somehow inferior because of it.
Silverleaf
